Saturday, November 6, 2010

Dear Keith Olbermann, What Part of the Recent Juan Williams Incident Did You NOT Understand?

Update - Keith Olbermann has returned to broadcasting on MSNBC.

“Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty; power is ever stealing from the many to the few.”
Wendell Phillips
American Abolitionist and Orator
1811-1884


“I sometimes think that the price of liberty is not so much eternal vigilance as eternal dirt.”
(and)
"All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome."
Eric Arthur Blair, aka George Orwell
English Journalist, and Author of 1984 and Animal Farm (among other works)
1903 -1950


“Burke said that there were Three Estates in Parliament; but, in the Reporters' Gallery yonder, there sat a Fourth Estate, more important far than they all.”
Thomas Carlyle quotes
Scottish Historian and Essayist,
1795-1881

Keith Olbermann has been suspended, indefinitely, without pay from his broadcasting duties on cable news network MSNBC.  Olbermann made political donations to three democratic candidates in the recent election: Senate contender Jack Conway in Kentucky (who lost to Rand Paul), and Congressional candidates from Arizona Raul Grijalva (who won in a narrow election still contested, by some 6,300 votes) and Gabrielle Gifford (who as of this morning, 11/6, announced she won by a similarly contested election by some 3,000 votes).

Olbermann released this statement to Politico regarding his conduct:
"One week ago, on the night of Thursday October 28 2010, after a discussion with a friend about the state of politics in Arizona, I donated $2,400 each to the re-election campaigns of Democratic Representatives Raul Grijalva and Gabrielle Giffords. I also donated the same amount to the campaign of Democratic Senatorial candidate Jack Conway in Kentucky.  I did not privately or publicly encourage anyone else to donate to these campaigns nor to any others in this election or any previous ones, nor have I previously donated to any political campaign at any level."

MSNBC has a policy for its employees that permit donations to political candidates with prior approval.  Mr. Olbermann did not seek or receive that approval before making those three legal donations.  In contrast, morning news host Joe Scarborough donated to a Republican candidate in the 2006 election WITH prior approval; MSNBC was at the time under different management, but the policy has remained the same.

Olbermann's reference in his statement that he did not publicly encourage anyone else to donate - in other words, he did not publicly fund raise for these candidates, publicly or privately, is significantly in contrast to any number of comparable individuals at Fox (NOT REALLY the) News. So, in that respect he was better, but still wrong.

Where Fox NOT the News is noted for their right wing rant and slant, MSNBC is sometimes considered their left wing opposite.  Which is both correct.........and incorrect.

Fixed News on-air personnel routinely engage in political fund raising - some of it effectively on-air.  They regularly with the apparent endorsement of Faux News promote political candidates and political movements.  The parent company to Fake News, under the direction of Rupert Murdoch has donated upwards of a reported $2 million dollars to the Republican party and Republican causes.  Employee Karl Rove operates a Super PAC which funded multiple millions of campaign ads, some of which are slated to continue post-election.

In contrast, presumably with permission since there has been no suspension or other discipline of Ed Schultz of MSNBC, Schultz promoted a progressive rally on both his MSNBC television show and his radio show through Dial Global; he appeared as one of the featured speakers.  While Schultz promoted a point of view, and encouraged political awareness and action, so far as I have been able to discern at this point, Schultz still differs from the Not-the-News crowd over at Fox in  not directly fund-raising for left wing candidates or causes, in personal appearances or on his broadcasts.  If he has himself made political donations, I haven't yet learned of it; but IF he did so, he appears to have gone through the appropriate channels with his various employers first, including MSNBC, based on the absence of any disciplinary action against him like the discipline of Olbermann.

So.......why does this matter?  I don't think the average person who has come out in defence of Juan Williams, opposing his firing, or now coming out in defence of Keith Olbermann, objecting to his suspension, quite understand.  All they seem to see is that someone has been faulted, and penalized, for simply expressing a feeling or an opinion, or for engaging in legal political donations, and that strikes many people as mean or unfair.

There is an important point being missed.  Actually - several important points are being missed.

Fox uses the motto 'fair and balanced'; they are neither, they aren't even news to the extent that they routinely promote and disseminate factually flawed reports pretty much 24/7. 
They are in effect nothing but the full time media mouthpiece for conservatives of various stripes who wish to avoid any challenging questions.  You WILL see Fox promote stories like the recent misrepresentation of the costs of President Obama's trip to India; you WILL see Fox promote the complete misrepresentation of the accusations of free ice cream bribes to multiple busloads Cincinnati Ohio High School Students; you will see factually utterly inaccurate stories like the one that claimed academic studies showed felons committing voter fraud to steal elections, including featuring our own Minnesota Governor Pawlenty and Congresswoman Michele Bachmann; you WILL see massive coverage of the scam ACORN story by James O'Keefe, along with the notion that he is some sort of journalist when he is the anti-Christ to what journalism is.

What you will NOT see on Fox Cable Nuisance is corrections when they get the facts wrong, or the slightest attempt to discern and present the facts of these stories at any stage in the news cycle of them.  On the rare occasions when the wider media coverage embarrasses them into reporting something, it is given the most minimal coverage possible. 

I don't claim that any media gives their corrections the same promotion that they give their original error, but most media - and in this I would include MSNBC, to give them their due - there is a far better effort than FOX Not-News manages to provide.  On MSNBC they DO discipline people like Olbermann; they DO challenge false or inaccurate statements made by fellow commenters and contributors; and they do correct themselves when an error is brought to their attention rather than ignore it and continue to promote the errors.

They are not perfect at MSNBC; but they are head and shoulders better.

That is a fine distinction, but a real one.  However, personally, I believe that Ed Schultz should NOT have appeared at the rally or promoted it as he did.  Olbermann and Schultz and the other 'talking heads' are supposed to ask hard questions.  Yes, they clearly have a political position; talking heads for example like afternoon host Dylan Ratigan openly admit to being liberal in moderating a panel discussion, for example.

But when you cross that line of political donation, either in money, or in kind services, you are actively participating in politics, not just actively observing them any longer.  You lose a very important distinction of being outside of those activities, a position which despite any innate biases, news personnel should avoid, whether in front of or behind the camera.  That active participation colors what you do beyond merely having a position somewhere in the political spectrum.  At that point you are no longer an observer any more, you are attempting directly to affect the outcome of the events on which you comment.

When you do not inform your audience that you are participating, that you are attempting to change the outcome of those events, you deprive your audience in important ways of the opportunity to critically evaluate what you say or write.  That is why serious news organizations prohibited their NEWS staff from participating in the recent Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert combined rallies.

Stewart and Colbert are featured on the COMEDY CENTRAL cable network; they are clearly primarily intended to be entertainers.  It is in their NAME, they make reference to it, joking about it, in nearly every single episode, self-describing their 'senior correspondents' as performing on a fake news show.  You can't be more obvious than that, short of having a giant neon outline of a hand swinging down from the catwalk above them, index finger pointing at each, with a flashing label 'fake' across it, in an arch parody of Monty Python.

And yet, Jon Stewart IS the most trusted news source in America, DESPITE being a comedian.  He holds that distinction, and Colbert has been similarly awarded a couple of the distinguished Peabody awards, precisely BECAUSE of being more factual, more accurate, and more fair and balanced in the actual information they present as humor, than Fox Nuisance is in presenting news.  They are more objective and clearly label their biases better than MSNBC, and while MSNBC manages to be more factual - the Daily Show and the Colbert Report are better.

Juan Williams was properly kicked to the curb by NPR for repeatedly and willfully violating the prohibitions that were essential to his employment with them.  He used his NPR credentials to give credence to his appearances in Faux News, and he expressed not just a bias, but an offensive and discrediting bias against Muslims.  The point is not and never has been about having personal fears.  The misunderstood point is that such a bias against an important group of people is wrong, it is wrong for many reasons not the least of which is that being Muslim is the wrong criteria for identifying terrorists. There are billions of Muslims in the world who pose no terrorist threat; it is NOT being Muslim which defines anyone as a terrorist.  It is adherence to an extreme view, a willingness to commit violence and use fear and intimidation to coerce others to conform to those views, which makes someone a terrorist, whatever the religion or politics that are the pretext.  Keith Olbermann was wrong for similarly violating the expressed policy of MSNBC, a policy in place because journalists are expected and required by serious news organization to be observers, not participants - which doesn't by that criteria include Fox as a news source.  Whether it be reporting, or just subjective commenting, it is substantively different from attempting to influence or affect the outcome of those events at issue.  For that reason I believe MSNBC and Global Dial seriously erred in giving permission to Ed Schultz to appear at the progressive rally or to promote it on their air waves.

We need to understand and embrace these distinctions. 

We need to hold our news sources and our opinion shapers to these higher standards, but most especially to factual accuracy.  We need ethical prohibitions that are backed up by suspensions, or if repeatedly flouted, by firings.  No more taking those sanctions back with apologies because of misguided public pressure.

We need, desperately need, better to appreciate the distinction of people who profit from provocation under the guise of entertainment or opinion.  This would include figures like Rush Limbaugh, who generates heat rather than light with his consistent daily pattern of a factually flawed right-wing message, much like a giant pile of rotting manure, and with a similar stink.  Figures on the left, like Bill Maher, operate in a similar fashion.  It's been a while since I watched Maher, but at least his pile of dung is slightly smaller to the extent that he has been more sensitive to criticism when he makes factual errors, but it is still excrement to profit by pure provocation.

When I watch them, I fact check Fox, I fact check MSNBC, I fact check Stewart and Colbert and Rush and Maher.  In the 2010 election of a few days ago, I was appalled at the number of voters I encountered who knew nothing about the candidates, and who were operating on false and erroneous information about the issues.  Instead of having MORE accurate information about local and state races, they tended to know less, when that information should have been the most directly accessible to voters.

Blind ideology is not only insufficient for participation in elections and government, it is pernicious when it is coupled with inaccuracies and outright intentional lies.  We need to hold those who straddle the line of entertainment and the fourth estate of news to the same higher standard to the extent they use a connection with reporting events as the substance of that entertainment, and to the extent they profit from it.  It is the essence, part of the foundation of representative government to have an informed electorate.  We do not at the moment appear to have that nearly as much as we need it --- but we can change that if we choose to do so.  Make that choice, make the effort.

36 comments:

  1. How much time do you spend watching FNC, Dog Gone? You are obsessed by it.
    Back in 2004 CBS's news division tried to cost a sitting president his re-election with a ginned-up scandal involving fraudulent documents. Yet I don't hate CBS, though its credibility as a source of news is shot.
    I certainly don't obsess over CBS news as you clearly do over FNC.

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  2. Terry wrote:
    "How much time do you spend watching FNC, Dog Gone? You are obsessed by it."

    Actually, Terry - no, I'm not obsessesd by it. I do DVR a mix of news every day, sampling foreign and domestic; right left and center; and both public and commercial; which I then watch later, usually previewing news summaries (as are often presented at the beginning) and then tracking different takes on only a couple of stories, and fast forwarding through the rest.
    I also try to manage at least some time every day tracking news either online or if on the road, by radio.

    I do not give Fox a disproportionate amount of attention. What I fault Fox for doing is their policies. They not not only fail to draw the line between observation and commentary, and participation or contriving to alter outcomes, they consistently - pretty much daily - promote misinformation and disinformation.

    I have yet to get through anything by Rush Limbaugh that could pass fact checking; he has as distant a relationship with fact and truth as does Bachmann.

    It is not sufficient to claim he is 'only an entertainer' when in fact he presents his program content as commentary on factual current events, not fiction. Very few of his misstatements are EVER made accurate later either.

    Instead facts are subordinate to a deliberate narrative calculated to an intended end result.

    That is not news when Fox does it, and it is not valid, legitimate, or acceptable under the disguising label of entertainment when Limbaugh does it.

    So if you LIKE believing utterly implausible garbage, for example, like the claim that President Obama is spending hundreds of millions of dollars a day to make a state visit to India, or that he is relocating a tenth or more of the armed forces to the vicinity of Mumbai, India to do so.......then you are a happy consumer of Fraud News and / or Rush Limbaugh and/or Michele Bachmann.

    These are NOT isolated incidents; they are daily programming.

    People ACT on this disinformation. People VOTE based on this stinking excrement. People turn to this instead of factual information, and that is wrong.

    Instead we need one set of standards for news, and the same set for facts presented as the basis of opinion programming. One set of standards, ethics, and rules should apply, regardless of the political ideology - right, center, or left.

    I notice you aren't defending Fox on the basis of the accuracy of their content (or Rush either).

    You are going after me, simply for paying attention. You also seem to have skipped over my faulting Olbermann, Schultz, and Maher.

    CBS didn't try to gin up anything; they had a long history of good news coverage, and then they shot themselves in the foot by not following those standards or procedures. I'm not aware of any compelling evidence it was CBS that created the fraudulent documents; only that they were not sufficiently rigorous in testing them. I would point out that Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox News was just as conned by fake Hitler diaries (and he spent a lot more money on that project than CBS did getting taken on the fraudulent Bush documents). I think 60 minutes does a good job overall under the umbrella of CBS news; their credibility is not 'shot'. They fired Rather - what else would you have them do to regain credibility?

    Who has Fox fired for the ACORN story?
    Or Breitbart, for ACORN, OR the Shirley Sherrod debacle?

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  3. I'm curious Terry - you mention that six year old oops at CBS...

    how critical are you of oh...say, Sarah Palin advising candidates to only be accessible to Fox news as their 'media outlet', so they can softball question their way out of any difficult position statements...and Sharron Angle who pretty much avoided any other press as much as possible, seeking Fox news so that she could make fund raising use of Fox, and only answer questions from the media that were 'friendly'? You know, the same woman who said she wouldn't announce her position on war until AFTER she was a senator?

    Is THAT your idea of the 'fourth estate'?

    That is an ongoing situation as bad or worse than CBS. CBS DID something about their debacle; heads rolled. Fox hasn't done anything except continue it.

    Maybe you should find a better example for comparison. CBS news is currently enormously more legitimate than Fox Nuisance.

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  4. In a post supposedly about Olbermann, you used at least ten derogatory names for FNC. That's obsession.
    In your replies to my comment, you worked in references to Limbaugh and Palin.
    Yesterday I left the comment below on the randomjottings blog:

    It is impossible to exaggerate the hatred that many on the cultural Left feel towards Fox News, Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbaugh. It is extraordinary. There is nothing on the Right that even comes close.

    http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/004468.html

    Everything you've written here has confirmed my observations.

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  5. My post was not about Olbermann; my post was about the effort to preserve objectivity, and journalistic ethics and integrity in the 'fourth estate', and why it was important. Keith Olbermann was an example from the left of overstepping those boundaries, but only one instance of the larger problem.

    Olbermann knew better, or appeared to understand the issues surrounding the firing of Juan Williams better at least, than his conduct would suggest. The one detail that I have not explored in this has been did Olbermann make the donations secretly. I don't know how the information came to light, but I will post it here if I find out. It is a pertinent factor in the discussion.

    In comparison, Rupert Murdoch expected that his millions of dollars in donations were secretly made to effect the 2010 elections; and his secrecy was blown.

    For failling to abide by the policies of his network established to define the distinction between attempting to alter the outcome of elections versus commenting on them, Olbermann was disciplined - and should have been.

    Can you show me any equivalent standards of conduct to those at NPR, or MSNBC that are in place at Fox, Terry?

    Can you show me ANY equivalent discipline for crossing the line between comment or journalism, and promotion and fund raising?

    Can you show me any effort whatsoever to be similarly factual on Fox in reporting accurate information or correcting inaccurate information? Or by Limbaugh?

    I can point to the occasions where errors of fact were noted, and corrected on NPR, on MSNBC, on other networks.

    I can point to occasions where I have faulted the interpretation of information on the left - like the mischaracterization of the Republican candidate this round of elections for his participation in WWII historic re-enactments. That was just one example where the left was unfair, and imho, inaccurate in what they reported and how they interpreted the facts, and I spoke out.

    Apparently, based on several statements made in subsequent prime time coverage, a number of other people 'on the left' as you characterize it, contacted MSNBC, in defense of the Nazi re-enactor as well, and MSNBC reported that too, btw, which was at least some small step in the direction of fairness. They were wrong to continue to bang away on that candidate's harmless hobby - but they did at least repeatedly report the objections to their coverage. Not really the same as being fair, but less unfair than oh, say the ACORN coverage on Fox.

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  6. You wrote, Terry: "It is impossible to exaggerate the hatred that many on the cultural Left feel towards Fox News, Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbaugh. It is extraordinary. There is nothing on the Right that even comes close."

    I am calmly critical of specific conduct Terry. I can cite chapter and verse to illustrate the routine inacuracies on the right that I described; the fact check sites are full of them.

    That is appropriate criticism. It is not hatred - I don't hate anyone. I deplore the dishonesty and the inaccuacy and the manipulation of information. You have not once addressed the substance of any specific example of those abuses.

    You attack me for a non-existent obsession. You claim a hatred that is non-existent. I don't hate Palin; I don't take Palin or Limbaugh seriously, and I don't have a lot of respect for anyone else doing so either. My BASIS for that is the factual errors in their statements.

    You are trying to define that legitimate criticism, and then dismiss it, as ideology driven, without ever acknowledging those mis-statements, the pattern of them, the frequency of them.

    I agreed with you that Rather and CBS was wrong; I disagreed with you on who committed the actual fraud. If you disagree with me, please show me where CBS created the fraudulent documents to alter the 2004 election, rather than being duped.

    But you also fail to address what CBS did to address their error.

    So, lets address oh...say the details of the free ice cream to bribe students story that was false on Fox and Limbaugh. Lets address one of the more recent ones, that Obama is spending hundreds of millinos of dollars a day on his trip to India. Show me where Fox News has shot their credibility after those.

    Show me the extensive corrections, the consequences of someone being fired and a major internal shake up on Fox, like the one on CBS in 2004.

    There aren't any. That is my 'beef' with Fox, with Limbaugh, and the others, not relative cultural positins.

    You like to claim strawman arguments Terry. You just made a jolly green giant of one.

    Now let me lead you back to facts and their absence, and to the lack of ethics (Not fair, not balanced) that I pointed out. This discussion is REALLY about those, wherever and whenever they occur.

    Maybe I will have to start a new side column - what facts did the right misstate today, by whom, until you are willing to discuss the issue. Not ad hominem. Not distractions

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  7. Using forged documents in an attempt to influence a presidential election is an "oops" to you, Dog Gone?
    Words fail me.

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  8. I was actually surprised to hear that Olbermann was considered a part of the NBC news team, at least for the purposes that led to his suspension. He plays the part of a fake conservative, doesn't he? How does this fit into NBC's "journalistic standards"?
    I don't think that Fox would ever hire a conservative to play a parody of a liberal, much less use him as a "serious" analyst on election night.
    This is why your talk of "journalistic standards" is a joke, Dog Gone. It's okay with NBC news for Olbermann to play a mock conservative blow hard, but it's wrong for him to donate a relatively small amount of money to a campaign? Because it might show that he was biased?
    There is a bigger story behind this, I wager.

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  9. The Olbermann suspension is clear cut. He violated the policy of his employer. This is a black and white issue. Williams at NPR is more nuanced. Personally, I think NPR (clumsily) tanked him because of the content of his comments, which irked the politically correct NPRistas. Had Williams been sounding off about fear of the Tea Partiers, NPR might have promoted him instead of firing him.

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  10. Dr. Kirsch, please make yourself at home. On the left you will see the gloomy "Island of Misfit Toys", its high peaks struck by lightening on occasion, wherein dwell Dog Gone and Penigma. To the right you will see the sun-drenched "Happy Isles", where I live alone except for the company of a Sarah Palin sex-bot.
    Welcome!

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  11. Terry, so long as CBS was fooled by the 2004 fraud, but did not participate in intentional fraud and did not creat the documents, I don't see how you can assert they were doing anything more than following up on a story they believed to be serious.

    Given how much Bush has admitted in his current biography the degree to which he had an alcohol problem for years, and given some of the other legitimate questions about his service record, I can see how CBS was set up. Set up - just like Rupert Murdoch was conned with that Hitler Diary fraud, despite efforts to authenticate material in both cases.

    Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with some of the other document frauds, art frauds / forgeries etc. that have fooled even savvy people in the past before being too quick to assume this was a simple hatchet job on the part of CBS.

    Or do you have some source of which I am unaware that proves CBS created those forgeries instead of simply being deceived by them? I'm still waiting for the answer to that question.

    You seem to be confusing Olbermann with Stephen Colbert. Colbert is the comedian who is a bit coy about whether or not he is conservative, and to what degree. Colbert is a brilliant satarist, he makes me laugh out loud. He happens to also have earned numerous awards, including one Peabody (I incorrectly noted more). For all the humor - like creating the new words 'truthiness' and 'factose intolerant', both addressing lack of factual reliability in parodying Fox, Colbert does do numerous interviews with serious guests. One of my favorites who is a recurring guest for interviews is Neil de Grasse Tyson. But Colbert also scores current event people, including those who are diplomatic figures both foreign and domestic, as well as individuals from the arts and sciences.

    Olbermann is a talkng head on an entirely different network, MSNBC; he is a former ESPN sports guy who branched out into other areas of serious news. Colbert is on the Comedy Network, as is Jon Stewart.

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  12. Both Olbermann and Williams violated the policy of their employers, Michael. Williams has himself indicated that NPR had made it clear more than once before he was terminated that they did not want him identifying himself as a senior NPR correspondent. Had he not continued to include that identification, Williams could have said any darn thing he wanted to say, because it would not have attached to him in his role at NPR, re Tea Partiers, martians, or whatever.

    I think Pen did an excellent job of indicating how important identification with an employer is in the content of what you say or write in his "A (Probably not) final word on Juan Williams" post a few days ago. One of my good friends is a senior compliance analyst for a major multinational financial firm. Her job - her sole job, along with many many other people - is to review material that is used in all forms of media and marketing attached to the name of the company or its products. There are specialized attorneys attached to specifically this function. There are periodic state reviews of their files in all fifty states with which her department has to comply, that review what they have approved to demonstrate they are following the law sufficiently strictly in the language and in the corporate references. Last year, someone in her company stupidly wrote something on his own private personal blog which was considered controversial; because he identified his correct actual business relationship with this company, he was fired --- just like what Pen describes could happen to him if he oversteps. Same thing with journalists. See the piece I wrote on the cautions against even attending the Stewart Colbert rally issued to news staff members. It did not apply to any other staff, just news staff, for a reason --- and that was a comedy event, but had possible - just possible - political overtones.

    It is too bad that a lot of people don't appreciate that aspect of these events. There are good reasons for those prohibitions; they are not casual or silly. Williams was advised of them and flouted them anyway.

    Given the unusually short turnaround time for him to be offered employment at Fox, I don't think it was accidental that Williams did what he did. It doesn't walk, quack, or swim like an honest 'oops'.

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  13. So while basking in happy delusion on your little factose intolerant island, where you can ignore factual information in favor of blind ideology Terry, are you ever going to get around to answering my question about CBS?

    I'm still amused that after coming out in favor of the firing of Sanches, and Williams, and in support of sanctions against Olbermann, and in disagreement that Schultz should have participated in the recent rally, and after criticizing the provocation driven content of Maher as well as Limberger, all you can identify is my criticism of Fox for lack of accuracy. And you threw in Palin, apparently without noticing that I wasn't talking about her so much as Bachmann the failed fact check queen. You didn't even pay attention to who was whom between comedy central and news networks.

    But hey, you are quick to throw out accusations of hatred and obsession. Not so quick to provide any facts about your media darlings and consequences for their fund raising conduct, their softballing candidates so they can spin things and avoid answering serious questions, nothing at all about consequences for a supposed news network making routinely inaccurate statements and being lax in making corrections of them.

    And you claim Pen and I are on some kind of fantasy island Terry? No, it's not US who is in that silly world you posit.

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  14. sorry - that should have read it is not us who ARE in that silly world you posit

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  15. What is funny is that Olberman was considered "objective or balanced" before this. He was probably the most partisan talking head on television. As far as journalists from the major networks being balanced look at what happened to CBS in Alaska. They caught a producer and two reporters discussing how they should look through the crowd to find any known sex offenders, preferrably pedophiles, and splash their face on tv as being a supporter of the republican candidate for senate. To his credit the local station manager fired them but it makes you wonder what would have happened had they not been caught in the planning stages.

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  16. Terry, thanks for the welcome, I already feel welcome on this excellent and erudite forum. I stand by my comment that Williams was not axed for violating policy, but for the content of his comments. With respect to Olbermann, it is inarguable that he violated policy not to donate $ to campaigns - no subjectivity or nuance here. My recollection with regard to the CBS Dan Rather forgeries is that the network did not perform the due diligence that fair journalism would require, and only belatedly retracted the story. The conclusions one could draw from this agenda are clear. Greetings to all.

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  17. The 1976 movie "Network" described the news environment that we now live in. Television news is pretty much all about entertainment anymore. "News" ranks right up there with sitcoms, police dramas, and soaps. Treat it as such and you won't be mislead.

    Where accuracy and truth in political reporting is concerned, television news is a close second to political campaign advertizing. On second thought, it might rank first - only because it assumes an air of credibility that the ads do not.

    I don't waste my time watching television "news."

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  18. DG, first, I think you are making a fine point that news is utterly flawed - Bill Maher made the same point - when we forget that it is supposed to be something which digs into the facts without looking for a desired outcome. Looking for a pre-disposed outcome will very nearly always succeed in finding it. Sometimes folks like Olberman do just that.

    It becomes MUCH worse than that, though, is when you invent facts, promote those things which you either know, or could EASILY know, are false. This is the nature and conduct of Faux News. They are aware much of what they report is wildly distorted, or worse, totally false, yet they report it regardless.

    However, I took a different couple of points from this story...

    First, Olberman violated a rule of his employer, so did Williams. Some of those commenting here seem to have missed that. Williams was directly told to stop, he didn't. Olberman violated a rule which prohibited him from giving without APPROVAL, not just notice. I for one am curious what form that approval takes. Does MSNBC withhold that approval from candidates it doesn't like? Obviously none of us know, and I am only speculating, but what if Olberman were denied permission simply because NBC's leadership didn't like the candidates he wanted to support? Where does Olberman's private right to free speech start? He didn't (as Williams did) advocate on the air, he didn't speak on behalf of his employer without their approval (unless you consider a private political donation done without the spoken endorsement of the employer, to be the same thing, I don't).

    The point is, Olberman spoke as Olberman alone. He broke a rule, he got in trouble, we'll see where it goes, but he didn't expose his employer to criticism. If the reason he didn't get permission was that permission wasn't going to be given, then I believe I'd have done the same thing he did. I DO have the right, after all, to ultimately engage myself privately, off-air, on my own time and without speaking on behalf of my employer, in politics.

    Juan Williams, by contrast, spoke for his employer, without the employer's permission. Even if he said he liked duckies and bunnies, it was still totally not ok. I'd ask any of us if they said something like, "I'm from , and I think...," whether they'd be in trouble. 99% of us would, because we don't speak for our employer normally. Whereas if you gave money privately to a candidate, your employer would say nothing.

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  19. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/10/national/main665727.shtm

    "CBS Panel's Conclusions

    CBS News ousted four staffers following the release of a scathing report detailing errors in a 60 Minutes Wednesday story on President Bush's military service,"

    "Dick Thornburgh and Louis Boccardi, members of the panel that probed the CBS News story on President Bush's National Guard service, criticize the handling of the story.
    Investigative panel shares its findings regarding 60 Minutes' Wednesday story on President Bush's National Guard record.

    Four CBS News employees, including three executives, have been ousted for their role in preparing and reporting a disputed story about President Bush’s National Guard service

    Asked to resign were Senior Vice President Betsy West, who supervised CBS News primetime programs; 60 Minutes Wednesday Executive Producer Josh Howard; and Howard’s deputy, Senior Broadcast Producer Mary Murphy. The producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, was terminated.

    The panel said a "myopic zeal" to be the first news organization to broadcast a groundbreaking story about Mr. Bush’s National Guard service was a key factor in explaining why CBS News had produced a story that was neither fair nor accurate and did not meet the organization’s internal standards.

    The report said at least four factors that some observers described as a journalistic “Perfect Storm” had contributed to the decision to broadcast a piece that was seriously flawed.

    "The combination of a new 60 Minutes Wednesday management team, great deference given to a highly respected producer and the network’s news anchor, competitive pressures, and a zealous belief in the truth of the segment seem to have led many to disregard some fundamental journalistic principles," the report said. (my emphasis added)

    While the panel found that some actions taken by CBS News encouraged such suspicions, “the Panel cannot conclude that a political agenda at 60 Minutes Wednesday drove either the timing of the airing of the segment or its content.” again - my emphasis, but this was an INDEPENDENT panel investigation

    "Their findings were contained in a 224-page report made public on Monday. While the panel said it was not prepared to brand the Killian documents as an outright forgery, it raised serious questions about their authenticity and the way CBS News handled them.

    ReplyDelete
  20. ...continued..

    What Olberman did was wrong on it's face - in that he apparently openly violated a policy of his employer, but until I know the underlying nature of how this permission is given, I won't go to saying it's a peer to William's conduct. If MSNBC withholds such permissions speciously, then while "legally" wrong for Olberman (and yeah, his job is at risk and should be), it isn't ethically wrong.

    One other point, tangential, but one I want you all to consider as it relates to William's conduct.

    We (Americans) generally become incenced when someone suggests that American conduct abroad in part motivated terrorism. We answer back with two replies.

    First, we say that the conduct of a handful of people cannot possibly speak for the vast majority - and that they should look at our overall record of conduct, not the abberant conduct of a few corporate, greedy ammoral thugs. Ok, got it.

    Second, that no conduct of some abhorant few justifies the killing of thousands of uninvolved innocents. Again, got it, both arguments are fundamentally sound, withstand ethical scrutiny and are ultimately (I think we'll all agree) correct.

    Ok, so please tell me (Mr. Williams) and everyone else; When Muslims say, "Al Qaeda does not speak for all of us", when they say "The deaths of those on 9/11 cannot possibly be justified by the killing of hundreds of thousands, by taking the fight to the 'civilians' who supposedly support them, but in truth the vast majority don't' and lastly when they say, "you seem blind to the good works we do in many places to judge us this way", what exactly is the difference?

    This is why William's comments (lumping all Muslims together) while understandable, are so offensive. Olberman said nothing of the sort on behalf of his employer.

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  21. The panel identified 10 serious defects in the preparation and reporting of the story that included failure to obtain clear authentication of the documents or to investigate the controversial background of the source of the purported documents, retired Texas National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett.

    The producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, was also faulted for calling Joe Lockhart, a senior official in the John Kerry campaign, prior to the airing of the piece, and offering to put Burkett in touch with him. The panel called Mapes’ action a “clear conflict of interest that created the appearance of political bias.”

    Mapes said Monday she was "terribly disappointed" by the report's conclusions. She said she believed the story was corroborated by others and consistent with previously known records, and that the panel was quick to condemn her based on statements from people who said different things to her.

    Mapes accused CBS President Moonves of making her a "scapegoat" and said his actions were "motivated by corporate and political considerations -- ratings rather than journalism."

    The panel noted that the Guard segment was rushed on the air only three days after 60 Minutes Wednesday had obtained some of the documents from Burkett and that preparation of the piece was supervised by a new management team of executive producer Josh Howard and senior broadcast producer Mary Murphy.

    A key factor in the decision to broadcast the piece was a telephone conversation between Mapes and Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, Killian’s commanding officer during the period in question. Mapes told the panel Hodges confirmed the content of the four documents after she read them to him over the phone.

    Hodges, however, denied doing so. He also told the panel he had given Mapes information that should have raised warning flags about the documents, including his belief that Killian had never ordered anyone, including Mr. Bush, to take a physical.

    Hodges said that when he finally saw the documents after the Sept. 8 broadcast, he concluded they were bogus and told Rather and Mapes of his opinion on Sept. 10.

    “This alleged confirmation by Major General Hodges started to march 60 Minutes Wednesday into dangerous and ultimately unsustainable territory: the notion that since the content of the documents was felt to be true, demonstrating the authenticity of the documents became less important.”

    Mapes’ telephone conversation with Hodges was part of a vetting process that the panel concluded was wholly inadequate, largely because it had to be done so quickly. The key executives vetting the piece were West, Howard, and Murphy.

    After rushing the piece to air, the panel said, CBS News compounded the error by blindly defending the story. In doing so, the news organization missed opportunities to set the record straight.

    “The panel finds that once serious questions were raised, the defense of the segment became more rigid and emphatic, and that virtually no attempt was made to determine whether the questions raised had merit,” the report concluded.

    The panel believes a turning point came on Sept. 10, when CBS News President Andrew Heyward ordered West to review the opinions of document examiners who had seen the disputed documents and the confidential sources supporting the story.

    But no such investigation was undertaken at that time.

    “Had this directive been followed promptly, the panel does not believe that 60 Minutes Wednesday would have publicly defended the segment for another 10 days,” the report said.

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  22. The panel made a number of recommendations for changes, including:


    •Appoint a senior Standards and Practices Executive, reporting directly to the President of CBS News, who would review all investigative reporting, use of confidential sources and authentication of documents. Personnel should feel comfortable going to this person confidentially and without fear of reprisal, with questions or concerns about particular reports.


    •Foster an atmosphere in which competitive pressure is not allowed to prompt airing of reports before all investigation and vetting is done.


    •Allow senior management to know the names of confidential sources as well as all relevant background about the person needed to make news judgments.


    •Appoint a separate team, led by someone not involved in the original reporting, to look into any news report that is challenged.

    In a memo to CBS News staff sent Monday afternoon, Heyward said it was a "difficult and important" day for CBS News.

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  23. CBS made an error, a big messy splashy public error, and they compounded that error by not correcting it soon enough.

    Their response to doing those mistakes was to have an independent panel review what happened, to admit the faults in the story, and to correct the underlying problems the panel revealed.

    Fox DOES NOTHING SIMILAR IN CORRECTING THEIR FACTUAL INACCURACIES.

    FOX DOES HAVE A FAR MORE CLEARLY ANTI-OBAMA, ANTI-DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE, ANTI-LIBERAL AGENDA and bias. Of the two, their factual deficiencies bother me more, and their failure to correct them - but both bother me.

    A bias can be clear, but a network can still present somewhat balanced news in chosing to present facts which disagree with their position. Fox doesn't do that, to a large degree. But if Fox were simply more factual and accurate, the positions they espouse and promote would be far harder for them to sustain. 90% of Rush Limbuagh's broadcasts would similarly fold.

    Holding an organization accountable for fact should NOT be controversial. We should ALL do it.

    Terry, you have yet to disagree with me on any of the examples I presented critical of Fox for inaccuracy. Do you or do you not agree they were inaccurate? If they were inaccurate, and not corrected -- why is that acceptable to you?

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  24. Keith Olbermann has had the candidates who he supported with donations on his program for interviews.

    The policy of approval relates to transparency. When someone is a donor, they shouldn't be doing those interviews. THAT is why the DATE of the donations was signficant.

    IF a talking head should not be conducting an interview, for whatever reason, it is fairly and properly a direct concern of their employer.

    No one is depriving anyone of their rights to free speech. But in accepting news network employment, as distinct from other employment at that network - say sports or comedy - employees AGREE to the conditions of not making donations without approval -- AND of not identifying themselves in a way which gives the impact of their employer support for their private statements. That latter condition is NOT unique to news, but is also common in other areas of employment.

    Employees of news organizations also voluntarily as a condition of employment restrict their first amendment rights to assembly -- as in being directed that it was not acceptable to go to the Colbert / Stewart rally.

    That is a choice employees make for news employment; when they fail to abide by that choice, they should be disciplined, or if it is a repeated violation as was Williams, fired.

    Show me where Fox has a similar disciplinary policy for transparency or journalistic ethics. They don't.

    ReplyDelete
  25. This is the wikipedia section on the colbert report, which happens to be a pretty good summation.

    "Since October 17, 2005, Colbert has hosted his own television show, The Colbert Report, a Daily Show spin-off which parodies the conventions of television news broadcasting,[17] particularly cable-personality political talk shows like The O'Reilly Factor and Glenn Beck.[3][37] Colbert hosts the show in-character as a blustery right-wing pundit, generally considered to be an extension of his character on The Daily Show. Conceived by co-creators Stewart, Colbert, and Ben Karlin in part as an opportunity to explore "the character-driven news", the series focuses less on the day-to-day news style of the Daily Show, instead frequently concentrating on the foibles of the host-character himself."

    Character driven news. NOT fact driven news.

    That is a serious concern when facts are deficient or absent on a regular basis.

    Especially when a segment of the population is not intellectually critical of those deficiencies, and mistake it for NEWS.

    You have theocratic extremists like Michele Bachmann making this statement about Glenn Beck on his Fox program:

    "That’s where you come into play, because probably like no other commentator in the country, you have exposed this, and I’ll tell you, it is the infamous Glenn Beck chalkboard. [Beck chuckles.] That’s where the American people have been learning the truth. I will tell you: Members of Congress have their TVs snapped on when Glenn Beck comes on in the afternoon. We learn a lot from that infamous chalkboard about what’s going on."

    Glenn Beck is utterly clueless. He makes shit up. He makes false and specious connections, that go unchallenged, and are repeated and beleived when they should not be.

    Limbaugh does the same.

    And they both have been made multi-millionaire celebrities by the gullible non-fact checking right.

    If I can fact check - so can you, so can they. Do IT.

    ReplyDelete
  26. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/3636377/Hitler-diaries-scandal-Wed-printed-the-scoop-of-the-century-then-it-turned-to-dust.html

    Here is the example of Rupert Murdoch running the Hitler diaries, despite challenges about their authenticity. It was as embarassing a fake scoop as the CBS News --- and unlike CBS News re the 'W' Bush national guard, it has been definitevly proven false. The Bush National guard record has been expunged and redacted so that no verification is possible.

    So, not to give credence to the haste in launching a news scoop in the highly competitive broadcast news field, but rather to believe established purveyer of falsehoods and inaccuracies Rush Limbaugh's take on the events is hypocritical; it applies a double standard to motivations and makes claims not supported by fact and investigation.

    CBS over their decades of news coverage has won numerous awards for their responsible coverage.

    I can't find a single award to Fox News for any of their content - but I would put it out there for any of you to find some legitimate recognition in the field of news that I missed.

    Here is an interesting commentary that sums it up rather well.
    http://www.newshounds.us/2009/04/02/no_peabody_awards_for_fox_news_but_theyre_1_in_cable_news.php

    ReplyDelete
  27. So while basking in happy delusion on your little factose intolerant island, where you can ignore factual information in favor of blind ideology Terry, are you ever going to get around to answering my question about CBS?

    Sorry, I went down to the swimming hole after my last comment and just got back. It's spring-fed with a sandy bottom, and the water is cold and crystal clear. The mermaids sporting in the waterfall are almost too much. I was up half the night meditating on the question of how they could be half fish and all woman at the same time.
    Anyway. You were asking about CBS news attempt to influence the 2004 presidential election using forged documents?
    You may remember that conservative bloggers exposed the "Killian Documents" as obvious forgeries within minutes of the broadcast, yet CBS defended the story for weeks. The individuals who exposed the documents as forgeries were highly partisan Republicans and conservatives. CBS has never admitted that the problem at the root of the Bush TANG story was the political bias of its producer and the editorial staff of CBS. One intriguing story -- which I am not willing to investigate now due to "spending too much time on this already" -- is that Mapes has said that the story was meant to be a response to the "swiftboating" of John Kerry earlier in the 2004 campaign. If this was true, it means that CBS News was hopelessly compromised from the start by willfully acting as an agent for the Kerry campaign.

    Dog Gone, since you obsessively hammered the "lack of jounalistic standards" at Fox, I thought I would supply you with this link:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19178161/
    It is from an MSNBC fact sheet on the campaign donations policy of various news organisations. Fox is hardly an outlier.

    As for the mermaid question? I have concluded that here, on the Happy Isles, integer values may have fractional sub parts yet remain integer values. A neat compromise!

    ReplyDelete
  28. The independent investigatin which actually EXAMINED the documents has not declared them false, only suspect. So bloggers claiming they are false without actually examining them are not conclusive determiners of fact.

    Supposedly, Bush's actual records have been altered / tampered/ 'expunged' -- I'll leave it to Pen to address that.

    CBS news staff who were convinced that the documents were legitimate supported the story for 12 days - not weeks. Facts here please.

    Then CBS did something about it. Swiftboating Kerry was a big story, apparently a total smear against his candidacy. The only connection was that it appears one of the CBS news staff informed the Kerry campaign of their findings, seeking comment -- there is actually nothing wrong with seeking comment. To their credit, the Kerry campaign distanced themselves from this - something they did before they knew if or how it had been authenticated.

    In the end people were fired, and an apology was issued. Changes to the entire news department were put in place to prevent this from happening again.

    Tuck - you mentioned the sex offenders scandal in Alaska, and followed up with the right wing smear that it was about attacking Joe Miller.

    That is far from clear; apparently at issue in Alaska is the voting rights of sex offenders -- regardless of who they vote for. Looking for sex offenders believed to be in the crowd, and reporting it if they are, in the context of that concern, that larger public debate, is legitimate. Trying to tie only one candidate to that is not.

    Again - this appears to be in violation of the CBS affiliate's existing protocol, not part of it, and people were fired for violating those rules -- So? The system had the consequences that you would expect of legitimate news.

    Show me ANY consequences whatsoever for the story widely and inaccurately reported on Fox
    that felons were illegally voting in Minnesota elections, 'stealing' elections, and their reporting of multiple studies cited as proof?

    Those studies - all of them - clearly indicated that there were no such illegal voter frauds taking place, that there were relatively few felons who regained their voting privileges who voted - but that those few, when they did vote, voted for democratic candidates more frequently than republican. NOT ILLEGAL votes, and not legal votes by former felons in numbers sufficient to alter any election, not even close ones.

    WHO got fired on Fox for that inaccuracy attacking Democratic candidates? Who on Fox appears to have even read the studies - as Pen and I did - before citing them? NO ONE. That is not news.

    No way has Olbermann ever been the most partisan talking head on television. Sheesh! He is far more fact based than anyone on the Fox network prime time or morning coverage that could be remotely comparable.

    Who EVER is held accountable at Fox for their inaccuracies? When is Rush Limbaugh EVER held accountable for his DAILY misstatements of fact?

    Never. That is why neither will ever receive an award for journalism - they don't practice it, nothing remotely like it.

    And you don't care, because they are telling you lies you want to hear.

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  29. Mary Mapes was given a Peabody Award after the 60 Minutes/Killian forgeries were exposed! The Daily Show, a fake news program, has won the Peabody Award twice!
    Lol.
    I don't know why you've tried to put me on the stand defending Fox news, Dog Gone. I don't watch it. I doubt that they are any more biased than the news outlets you revere. You seem to find that prospect unsettling.

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  30. CBS news staff who were convinced that the documents were legitimate supported the story for 12 days - not weeks. Facts here please.

    But I didn't write about "CBS news staff who were convinced that the documents were legitimate" I wrote about CBS. It did not announce the establishment of an outside review panel until the 22 Sept. CBS said that it would form such a panel a few days before the 22nd:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/22/politics/main644969.shtml

    One of your faults as a rhetorician, Dog Gone (and one you share with biased sources such as factcheck.org) is that you try to turn differences of opinion into disagreements on facts.
    Mapes still argues that the documents are genuine because they have not been proved to be forgeries -- difficult to do, since Burkett claims to have burned the documents after he made the copies. Mapes is a fool and is ignorant of the standards of textbook journalism. The Peabody Award committee disgraced itself when it handed CBS an award for one of her stories.

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  31. CBS ordered an investigation far earlier than the date you cite, Terry - and believed that it had been undertaken. Staff didn't follow through. Those personnel were fired.

    CBS retracted the stroy after 12 days, and began the independent rather than internal investigation.

    I give them full credit for the 12 day date - not weeks - because that was when they repudiated the story; the rest was a matter of time to complete that independent investigation.

    An independent investigation which did not prove the documents fraudulent, but faulted the staff for rushing to put the story on air without sufficient verification, in order to get a scoop.

    NOT, as you allege, to cost a sitting president his re-election. FACTS.

    If Mapes or anyone else wins a Peabody for other pieces which do not have the same flaws, other pieces of journalism which meet the rigorous standards of what journalism should be --- good for her.

    So......show me where there is some other motive than attacking a sitting president in the story on Fox News that the diplomatic trip to India is costing 200 million or more a day, and that 10% of the armed forces are being deployed? This was from a supposed anonymous source in India.......and yet we have Michele Bachmann spreading it all over national media as if it were true......because it was on Fox News and 'reported on the internet'.

    Who has been disciplined for the unsubstantiated and ludicrous reporting of that attack on the curren administration, an attack intended to cost candidates election in the 2010 races?

    Who on the right is holding Bachmann or Limbaugh or Fox accountable for that lack of fact checking? WHAT equivalent discipline is there for equal or worse on the right that remotely compares to the discipline on the left or in the center for violations of fact and fact checking, or for any journalism which might be spun to be an attack if you work hard enough at it?

    There is a double standard in play here Terry. YOU, Terry, fault me for mocking Fox News, but you can't defend the behavior I'm criticizing, because it IS as bad as I accuse them of.

    YOU come up with excuses that their is hatred for Rush Limbaugh, to deflect criticism of HIS lack of factual content, and HIS false accusations of Obama and others. NO, it is absolutely merited criticism of Limbaugh for exactly that, and isn't about hatred at all.

    Bachmann has by her own positions - lie promoting this $200 million a day story - shown herself to be unqualified to be in any position of leadership. Palin isn't any better. They both regularly fail fact checks -- Bachmann ALWAYS fails fact checks.

    She is only elected because she is in a gerrymandered district that will keep returning someone for being a religious zealot and a political extremist.

    And YOU and others on the right REFUSE, repeatedly REFUSE to require honesty, to require factual statements from those on your side of the political spectrum.

    You do not hold those figures who make opinion on the right to similar standards of fact, of honesty, or of fair intent.

    I look at news stories daily, and see what all parts of the spectrum are reporting. That is as a start. From there, I go find the actual facts, and comment on them here and elsewhere. I don't see much of that being done on the right; I see NOTHING but partisan commentary, and the facts be damned.

    Show me one instance where someone like Mithc on SitD has fact checked a story like the ice-cream-bribes-of-students-by-democrats that he challenged before posting it. Show me where he ever challenges Limbaugh, Hewitt, Bachmann or anyone on Fox as I have challenged Shultz or Matthews.

    Double standard, fiction in place of facts. And the spending of a lot of money to sell that fiction as fact. A LOT of money, record breaking amounts of money promoting it.

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  32. You are growing less coherent with each comment, Dog Gone.

    This is from the Thornburgh-Boccardi report:

    In apparent anticipation that Lieutenant Colonel Burkett might be reluctant to show them the documents, Smith e-mailed a detailed proposal to Mapes on Tuesday, August 31, regarding putting Lieutenant Colonel Burkett in touch with an agent for a book deal, and Smith indicated that he would try to work something out with his publishing friends: Today I am going to send the following hypothetical scenario to a reliable, trustable editor friend of mine . . . What if there was a person who might have some information that could possibly change the momentum of an election but we needed to get an ASAP book deal to help get us the information? What kinds of turnaround payment schedules are possible, keeping in mind the book probably could not make it out until after the election . . . .

    http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/complete_report/CBS_Report.pdf
    pg. 61.


    But Dog Gone wrote:

    An independent investigation which did not prove the documents fraudulent, but faulted the staff for rushing to put the story on air without sufficient verification, in order to get a scoop.

    NOT, as you allege, to cost a sitting president his re-election. FACTS.

    You are blinded by your progressive ideology, Dog Gone. Mapes was not in a hurry to "scoop" anyone. Burkett had no credible plans to expose his "documents" to anyone else.

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  33. I've read this series of posts with a bit of bemusement. At one point in the past, a commenter on this blog accused DG of being Penigma's "Attack Dog", presuming for her tenacity once she has made up her mind. Both parties to this debate have clearly made up their minds, and I don't think either will be swayed by opinion to the contrary.

    The CBS News incident with Dan Rather is utterly immaterial to the discussion at hand. The story was later discovered to be something that couldn't be verified, and CBS news later published a retraction and disciplined some of the people involved. Enough said.

    There has been considerable discussion on here as to whether Fox News should be called a news service, and based on the number of inaccuracies, I see why. However, I will promise that I will not call them "Faux News", or "Fox Not the News", at least any more. This has less to do with whether I find their journalism up to anywhere close to professional standards, (I don't) but that I refuse to stoop to their level and somehow legitimize their lack of professionalism.

    I agree with Dr. Kirsch that I think Juan Williams was fired more for what he said rather than a policy matter. There is a slippery slope here. The American Press has unbridled freedom to print or say almost anything it wishes, and we can but hope they will be responsible. When they abuse that trust, there is nothing we can do about it. One of the abuses of that trust is violating the free speech principles that they hold so dear.

    continued...

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  34. I was listening to my Pubic Radio station this afternoon, and discovered to my shock and dismay, that Minnesota Public Radio, in an effort to "maintain fairness" even prohibits their reporters from registering with a political party. I think its a mistake, and if it isn't illegal (I haven't researched this thoroughly yet, although I intend to), it should be. NO EMPLOYER should be allowed to dictate to an employee whether or how they participate in the political process, as long as its done on that employee's time and not affiliated with the employer.

    Going back to the discussion at hand, the suspension of Keither Olbermann is just beginning, and as Penigma pointed out, we don't know enough facts to determine what went on. Does MSNBC routinely grant permission to donate if asked? Do they grant or deny permission based on the politics of the donor or donee? We simply don't know. When those questions are answered, we will know better whether their actions were justified, or whether his actions were justified.

    As far as NPR is concerned, I've already said previously, that they acted hypocritically, and that as a result, I no longer support them financially, nor will I in the future until I see some credible evidence that they will follow the rules of free speech that they demand for themselves.

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  35. TOE wrote:
    I was listening to my Pubic Radio station this afternoon, and discovered to my shock and dismay, that Minnesota Public Radio, in an effort to "maintain fairness" even prohibits their reporters from registering with a political party.

    I think the reason for this rule is cold calculation.
    NPR is funded in large part by tax dollars. If NPR's management, editors, writers, and performers could be shown to be overwhelmingly friendly to one political party (and I think that they would be), it would have repercussions on funding. An organ of the Democratic party should not receive public funding.

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  36. Looks like Olbermann will be back Tuesday! Yay!
    I've never watched his show. I didn't know that he was considered an MSNBC news analyst. I thought he did his schtick for a few minutes a day on the Comedy Channel's The daily Show.

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