I have made a lot of new additions to our blog roll over the last couple of years; some have lasted, a few have been subsequently dropped.
One of my goals in the changes to the blog roll has been to provide a diversity first of reliable, factual, verifiable information for our readers as an extension of what we provide here on penigma, above and beyond what we get strictly through our national media.
An example of one of those sources is All Africa; today that source provided this insight into the incidents surrounding our embassy in connection with the provocative movie made here in the U.S. that contrived to create chaos and dissension where there should be rapprochment.
Not only did the movie intended to incite violence against our embassies NOT produce enough people to accomplish that end out of outrage, apparently the people behind the demonstrations had to PAY demonstrators to show up and behave badly. This should be a significant argument against those who insist that all Muslims are bad, that all Muslims are violent, or that all Muslims over react irrationally to real or perceived insults to their religion.
Clearly, they don't. Overwhelmingly, apparently according to reports from native speaking American reporters who spoke with people in Cairo, particularly in the areas surrounding Tarhir square and the embassies, the overwhelming majority of people objected to the protests, and found them disruptive and sometimes just plain inconvenient to their lives, and they did NOT share the views of the protesters. Rather they were pressuring the Egyptian government TO CRACK DOWN on the protests.
Now we find that those protests were anything but what they were staged to appear.
Here is that article, provided by All Africa from the Egyptian State Information Service:
One of my goals in the changes to the blog roll has been to provide a diversity first of reliable, factual, verifiable information for our readers as an extension of what we provide here on penigma, above and beyond what we get strictly through our national media.
An example of one of those sources is All Africa; today that source provided this insight into the incidents surrounding our embassy in connection with the provocative movie made here in the U.S. that contrived to create chaos and dissension where there should be rapprochment.
Not only did the movie intended to incite violence against our embassies NOT produce enough people to accomplish that end out of outrage, apparently the people behind the demonstrations had to PAY demonstrators to show up and behave badly. This should be a significant argument against those who insist that all Muslims are bad, that all Muslims are violent, or that all Muslims over react irrationally to real or perceived insults to their religion.
Clearly, they don't. Overwhelmingly, apparently according to reports from native speaking American reporters who spoke with people in Cairo, particularly in the areas surrounding Tarhir square and the embassies, the overwhelming majority of people objected to the protests, and found them disruptive and sometimes just plain inconvenient to their lives, and they did NOT share the views of the protesters. Rather they were pressuring the Egyptian government TO CRACK DOWN on the protests.
Now we find that those protests were anything but what they were staged to appear.
Here is that article, provided by All Africa from the Egyptian State Information Service:
Egypt State Information Service (Cairo)
Egypt: Qandil - Some U.S. Embassy Protesters Paid to Take Part in Demonstrations
16 September 2012
Prime Minister Hisham Qandil has disclosed verified information that a number of protesters outside the US embassy in Cairo were paid to take part in the protests against a US-produced film defaming Prophet Muhammad.
In an interview with the BBC on Saturday 15/9/2012, Qandil said that some detained protesters admitted the matter, adding that interrogations are under way with them to uncover the true instigators of the violence. He added that 400 persons were arrested in the incidents and that they are being interrogated. Qandil asserted that any Arab person is aware of the sacredness of all religions and all prophets, adding "we do not accept to undermine any prophet whether he is Muhammad, Moses or the Christ."
"We will not allow such things to happen in our Arab and Islamic region," Qandil said in a reference to the anti-Islam movie.
"The parts we watched from the movie were disgusting and give an impression that the producers of the film do not have the values of the western world with regards to the freedom of expression," he said.
Qandil said that the US administration distanced itself from the film, citing statements made by US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton. Asked about alleged tension in the ties between Egypt and the US following remarks of US President Barack Obama that Egypt is not 'ally' or 'enemy', the premier said the relations will be based on the principle of joint interests and mutual respect.
He pointed to a visit by a US business delegation of 90 person representing 48 companies to Egypt before the recent anti-US protests. They have positive talks in Cairo, he said. "Things are going well because there is goodwill between the two sides," he said. Yet he called on the US to take decisive and quick measures to prevent such acts like the insulting movie.
In an interview with the BBC on Saturday 15/9/2012, Qandil said that some detained protesters admitted the matter, adding that interrogations are under way with them to uncover the true instigators of the violence. He added that 400 persons were arrested in the incidents and that they are being interrogated. Qandil asserted that any Arab person is aware of the sacredness of all religions and all prophets, adding "we do not accept to undermine any prophet whether he is Muhammad, Moses or the Christ."
"We will not allow such things to happen in our Arab and Islamic region," Qandil said in a reference to the anti-Islam movie.
"The parts we watched from the movie were disgusting and give an impression that the producers of the film do not have the values of the western world with regards to the freedom of expression," he said.
Qandil said that the US administration distanced itself from the film, citing statements made by US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton. Asked about alleged tension in the ties between Egypt and the US following remarks of US President Barack Obama that Egypt is not 'ally' or 'enemy', the premier said the relations will be based on the principle of joint interests and mutual respect.
He pointed to a visit by a US business delegation of 90 person representing 48 companies to Egypt before the recent anti-US protests. They have positive talks in Cairo, he said. "Things are going well because there is goodwill between the two sides," he said. Yet he called on the US to take decisive and quick measures to prevent such acts like the insulting movie.
Now I'm truly baffled.
ReplyDeleteIf the film is so insignificant a factor in upsetting world peace, why did the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs call a religious private citizen to ask him to stop exercising his First Amendment rights?
Why did the Obama administration tell YouTube to pull the film off the internet?
Why did a blog dedicated to the rational discussion of politics and current events say about a fan of the film: "He should be locked up for acting not in conscience, but as a menace to serving military and diplomatic staff, and as an impediment to U.S. foreign policy. He and his little group of ugly and demented pyros should never have a religious tax exemption, a building use permit, or a burning permit."
If the film was a false flag cover story orchestrated to divert the media, then all who leapt on the film as evidence of right-wing hatred were at best dupes and at worst, accomplices to terrorists, helping them carry out their mission to sow division and hatred in our nation.
So far, I've yet to hear any such admission from anybody on the Left nor any apology those wrongfully accused. The government continues to insist the film was the spark, that the US didn't miss essential warning signs, that retaliation for President Obama's drone killings was not a factor.
That wouldn't be the case if your theory was correct. The Obama Administration, being the most ethical in history, would come clean and admit "You're right, we got slammed on the anniversary of 9/11, we should have known it was coming, and we blew it big time." Other respected Liberals would be admitting "I admit it, I fell for the ruse, I'm sorry."
That's not happening so your theory can't be correct. The film was the spark. There was no advance warning. The Libyians are lying.
Here's why.
ReplyDeleteThe film was made, the redubbed, and postd on youtube; no one cared.
At that point, Bascele, and Steve Klein and their friends enlisted the not-reverend Jones to begin contacting people to get this film noticed so it would cause the reaction of people rising up to go after our embassied, and military.
That intent, to cause harm to our embassies and military is an incitement to riot, to aid and even to create enemies, and persuade and encourage them to attack us and other countries who are our allies and our ordinary non-governmental citizens in other countries.
Apparently this included contacting reporters in Egypt; no one was contacted in any other country in the middle east so far as I can find. When that STILL didn't get a reaction, they appear to have begun contacting fringe, radical groups - one of which took the bait.
That was what this was - bait.
Bascele then took his next step which was to try to blame his little youtube video on the Israelis and American Jews, including claiming to be one - he tried to direct anger at both Americans and Jews.
There is secteranism is Egypt right now, a very real volatility and fragility post- Arab spring.
There have been attacks by unknown radical groups on both Egyptians and Israeli outposts along the shared border. I believe this was intended to incite action there as well as our embassies, with the larger intent to drive a wedge between the US and muslim countries, and between Egypt and Israel to undo the Camp David Accords peace of more than 30 years.
That begins to be more than just protected freedom of speech; that gets into treason territory with deliberate fraud and incitement.
There is no evidence that the Libyans were lying; but you like to make shit up sometimes Joe. Since you keep ducking the questions about the old right and the new right, I'll ask it again.
Do you know who the conservatives were that comprised the old right and the new right, and when and how the transition from the former into the latter occurred?
Now since the youtube video was around since June or July without raising ANY reaction at all, and as there are other anti-religious videos on youtube, including anti-Muslim ones, that this one did NOT cause a reaction literally for months and that the others don't either is a pretty good reason to think the Obama administration didn't miss something.
ReplyDeleteThere is apparently a question of further dubbing and re-editing into Egyptian arabic with even more provocative language when the original didn't work to instigate the desired action.
But unless you believe that Obama should have been monitoring the telephone, internet and possibly mail communication of people who had no previous known links to terrorism - the lone wolf scenario effectively of someone with no previous participation in terrorism or related activity - no, the Obama administration had no warning.
It was the contact attempting to push this that was the problem, not just making the film and duping the cast and crew, and then trying to get it attention to do what it did in conjunction with trying to blame Israelis and our country for it. Most people using free speech just speak or right or film. They don't then go and sell it to foreign radicals in a fraudulent way in an attempt to incite violence. THAT crosses the line.
As to 9/11, there are protocols for declassifying documents. Obama is following those protocols. So far as I know he has made no statement about 9/11 either way -- but his administration did allow a reporter more access than was previously granted, after pursuit of an inquiry for access to the documents.
So..........about that old and new right Joe?
Were you being dishonest when you claimed it was democrats instead of the right wing conservatives, both democratic and republican who opposed civil rights, trying to identify ONLY democrats?
Or did you really just not know?
Earlier Koran burning, and now this, HAVE increased attacks on our troops in Afghanistan, resulting in more deaths. The Taliban has claimed those attacks were over the Bascele video/film.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that is a good thing Joe?
You are aware that we are actually at war there, correct; that is why it is calle the Afghanistan war, one of the two - the other being Iraq - that the Bush administration got us into, without funding them resulting in our catastrophic deficit (among other causes, but a fundamental one).
We have often engaged in more restrictive practiced during war where free speech is concerned when it would endanger our troops. Abe Lincoln even suspended habeus corpus for a short time. When it safeguards our military this is usuallly regarded as a acceptable war time action by our governments, so long as it extends only for the duration of the actual war or part of it.
Do you need another history lesson Joe?
Btw, do you have any evidence whatsoever that supports your claim that Libyans are lying?
ReplyDeleteBecause apparently what the Libyans claim was backed up by our own intel, including from our ambassador personally.
So if you know something we don't, please tell us, and please share that new intel with the government.
If you have intelligence.