Here is the segment with Richard Engle; pay particular attention to his comments about strange things people in relatively closed societies believe about us, using the example of North Korea. It is the large belief that we in the U.S. are intent on harming them, including attacking their religion, that is really behind the protests. It is fear driven, and given some of the stupid things done by the preceding administration that through around comparisons with invading modern countries with crusades, it is not as big a reach as you might think at first blush. Engle's comments about 9 minutes in are especially insightful, and I give him double kudos for his investigative reporting for speaking the language so that he is not limited to interviews in English.
The reality of why these people are acting this way is far greater than JUST the pretext of a religious insult. It goes much deeper to the same kinds of problems we have ourselves with right wing nuts who comprise birthers, truthers, deathers, tenthers and my personal favorite, those who fear a 'one world order' nonsense. We need to correct the conspiracy theory fallacies of these people; but we need to correct the misplaced beliefs in silliness of our own people too. We have a huge need for more education in foreign countries about us, but we have an equal or greater need to educate people right HERE about history, geology, Islam and other religions, math and science and economics, but especially in resisting the crackpot stuff that the tea partiers and others want to insert into our text books. That includes notions like that held by a the MN idiot running for Congress, Alan Quist, who wants to insert into textbooks nationwide as a fact (it isn't a fact at all) that dinosaurs were around in southeast Asia in the last thousand years. So before you wonder how could these Muslims be so crazy.....remember we have crazy Christian fundies who believe and do strange things too. When you get to the skinheads and some of the more extremists, they also tend to be violent. Ignorance and extreme beliefs tend to go hand in hand with violence, driven by fear and hatred of others whom they identify as 'other'; the more other or different, the more they fear and hate you. The more they fear and hate you, the more they demonize you, and the more they resist any facts that contradict their fear and hatred.
Patrick Kennedy, Under-Secretary at the State Department, is cited in the British press as admitting today that the attack was planned, not a response to the film.
ReplyDeleteNPR reported today that none of the protesters had actually seen the film.
Would you accept the "look what you made me do" excuse from a wife-beater?
Then why do you accept it from a Muslim, much less one who hasn't even seen the film?
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Joe - try to keep up.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, there is no analogy here that works to wife beaters.
Secondly, none of the individuals involved in the attack in Libya ever claimed it had anything to do with the film; that was an early reporting error.
It is incorrect to say that none of the protesters had seen the film; the entire film has not been shown, and is believed not to have been dubbed into Egyptian Arabic yet anyway. The approximately 15 minute trailer of the film, which is being reffered to as 'the film', because it is believed to be the only part of what was recorded that is out of post-production, HAS been dubbed into Arabic and WAS seen widely since July, including in the countries where there are currently protests.
So you DO have some protesters who have seen some or all of that, including copies which appear to have been made of that earlier footage on youtube when it WAS available in those countries. What is more significant is that many of the relgious elders and imams and other important figures made a point of seeing the video /internet movie as it currently exists. NO ONE has any idea how many people have seen the film, seen or heard excerpts from it, or how many have relied on what their clergy who did see it told them. So, perhaps you aren't quite quoting NPR correctly.
Further, as you would know if you either watched any of the clips OR read what I wrote, what happened was that someone got a response that they intended to provoke. That response didn't occur ONLY to the movie; the movie was the last straw, the catalyst, to many other perceptions, some factual, some factually incorrect.
We DID help keep Mubarak, a brutal and corrupt dictator, in power for some 40 years. He abused Egyptians badly, as well as doing some of our dirtier work for us. It is USA made and supplied tear gas that is being used on them, and it was USA made and supplied weaponry that was directed against them during the Arab Spring.
This is more akin to an abused wife lashing out finally after reaching the tipping point against abusers than the other way round.
But I think the strongest arguement for understanding (which is different than excusing) what is going on was that made by Richard Engle about the pattern of belief and information in closed societies, which Egypt had been to a substantial degree. It was in part the weakening through the internet and social media of the government grip on information that contributed to the revolution in Egypt.
It's just going to take awhile for them to catch up on what's real, and what's fake.
You know - like conservatives need to do here, where they choose to block any information they don't like, sticking their fingers in their ears going la la la la LA LA LA LA.
Like nice guys who can't admit the reality of the old right and the new right in right wing racism and anti-civil rights activity back in the day.
Hello Dog Gone,
ReplyDeleteYes fear and hatred through ignorance compounded by extreme beliefs do too often lead to violence.
I also have to say that I loved the clip but have to ask, “What in the Hell is in the Water there in Minnesota?!?!?” I think your state has more than its share of “Right Wing Bat Shit Crazies”……and they are being voted into Congress?!?!?
EOK- Hooray! I was just about to drop you an email to see how you were!
ReplyDeleteYes, it is not so much what's in the water (10,000 lakes worth of mosquito larvae?)but rather that there are districts that have been gerrymandered to be heavily conservative in order to get some of them elected in a predominantly Democratic/moderate liberal state.
As of the most recent polls Bachmann is tied with her Democratic challenger within the percentage of error. She has annoyed her base, they seem finally to be fed up with her severe factual deficiency. She's called wolf a lot of times too often.
Thanks for the comment!