Trump was not popularly elected.

I get really annoyed when I see people saying that Donald trump "won" the US election and try to make it sound as if he won the popular vote.

He didn't win the popular vote: he won in the electoral college.

The popular vote is the small print in the picture above. It's also the small print in the debate about Trump being US President.

The people are distracted to nebulous "Russian interference" Instead of addressing the glaring problems in US "democracy", which this is a glaring example. Yet no one seems to be willing to address the fact that the electoral college distorts the vote even when it isn't creating a mess like this one.

Elite media outlets do not, for the most part, have an interest in vote counts and what they mean. Coverage of the 2016 election campaign confirmed the extent to which major media are more interested in personalities than facts on the ground. The television networks like to declare a “winner” and then get focused on the palace intrigues surrounding a transition of power. Those intrigues are worth covering. But perspective on the will of the people get lost. Election-night numbers get locked in, and that’s that.

On the other hand, Clinton's margin  of victory in the popular vote was larger than John Kennedy's and Richard Nixon's, I've seen a statistic that her popular vote margin was the third largest in US elections! (It was the third highest for someone who lost an election, it was also fairly significant among the people who won the election)

Multiple candidates in American history have been elected president with far smaller margins than Clinton's in the popular vote. According to figures from the Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections—and as alluded to by one Atlantic reader—they include:

James Garfield in 1880: 0.09 percentage points

John F. Kennedy in 1960: 0.17 percentage points

Grover Cleveland in 1884: 0.57 percentage points

Richard Nixon in 1968: 0.7 percentage points

James Polk in 1844: 1.45 percentage points

Since the final vote count did, indeed, put her well above 2 percentage points ahead of Trump, her margin went beyond those of winning presidential nominees Jimmy Carter in 1976 (2.07 percentage points) and George W. Bush in 2004 (2.47 percentage points). And all this is not to mention the presidents who’ve been elected without winning the popular vote at all. That’s a list that includes Bush in 2000, and Trump.

Yet she lost. Trump lost the popular vote by more than any successfully elected president ever. And Clinton lost the election with a pretty hefty amount of popular votes.

So, no Hillary's margin of the popular vote is highly important since it demonstrates how fucked US "democracy" happens to be. There is a reason that the elections take forever: it's that it raises the cost of running for office. Again, the get the money out of politics crowd isn't talking about that aspect of the issue.


I agree with Donald Trump, who in 2012 described the Electoral College a “disaster for democracy.” Trump told CBS’s 60 Minutes after the 2016 election was over that he still agrees with himself—even if he is not prepared to defer to the will of the people in this instance. “I would rather see it where you went with simple votes,” Trump explained. “You know, you get 100 million votes and somebody else gets 90 million votes and you win.”

Stop trying to pin the 2016 election on the Russians since the problems are 100% home grown.

See Also

• Why the fuck do we have the electoral college anyway? Let’s discuss this shit show
• The Electoral College is Profoundly Undemocratic By Design 
• Trump owes his victory to America’s unique Electoral College system
• How the Electoral College Rigged the Election for Donald Trump
• The Electoral College effect — in 3 cool charts
• America's Unique and Controversial Electoral College  
• 9 Things You May Not Know About the Electoral College
• Hillary Clinton’s Popular-Vote Victory Is Unprecedented—and Still Growing
• Why Electoral College wins are bigger than popular vote ones
• Hillary Clinton's Lead Is Greater Than Multiple Former Presidents'
• Hillary Clinton's popular vote margin is meaningless in every way (except pithy tweets)

Windrush the Musical

I've written about Big Life before, but now that Windrush is in the news I have to talk about it in the hope someone sees this and decides to produce it.You can hear the play here at the BBC. The script is available it's ISBN 978-1840024418.

I never saw this on stage, but there is an archived version of the radio production of the musical. It combines Shakespeare's Love's Labours Lost with the story of the Windrush immigrants, which is now something in the news. I heard that this was a popular musical, yet it didn't have the long run of something by Cameron Mackintosh or Andrew Lloyd Weber. Maybe because it's about Windrush.

It opened in 2004 at the Theatre Royal Stratford East and then moved to West End's Apollo Theatre in 2005.
Anyway, I hope someone sees this copy of the script (the book is a copy of the script) and decides to publicise this play. It is a play which should have had more exposure. I think it really needs the exposure now that Windrush is in the news.

Jill Stein makes a statement on Russian Interference in the 2016 Election

Today, Jill Stein handed documents to the Senate Intelligence Committee’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election and is cooperating with their investigation.  Stein pointed out that:

Concerns about foreign interference should not distract us from interference in plain sight originating from within our own borders. That includes the actions of the Democratic National Committee, which biased its party’s own primaries, effectively disenfranchising millions of Bernie Sanders’ voters; corporate media that gave Donald Trump billions in extra free airtime because he was “damn good” for network profits, in the words of CBS’ CEO; or voter suppression schemes like voter ID laws, Interstate Crosscheck and felon disenfranchisement that systematically deny millions of Americans their constitutional right to vote. 

While there is no "constitutional right to vote" in the US despite it being the foundation of a democratic (or republican) society, I agree with the sentiments expressed by her.[1]

She points out that the internal meddling of Cambridge Analytica was far more egregious than the Russians, which is something that isn't really new. However, it is something which needs to be reiterated:

The cutting-edge tactics of the Cambridge Analytica scandal make alleged Russian social media meddling look primitive and insignificant by comparison. Cambridge Analytica is accused of using without permission the private information of up to 87 million people, assembling thousands of data points on individuals to craft micro-targeted messages in a campaign of mass manipulation with the scale and sophistication of military-style psy-ops. The actions of the Russian Internet Research Agency, on the other hand, appear to be the opposite of sophisticated and strategic. The lack of targeting, timing and relevance of the vast majority of their Facebook ads underscores the doubts expressed by investigative reporters who’ve suggested the Internet Research Agency may in fact be a “click-bait” factory intended to generate advertising revenue, and not an election meddling operation. The insignificant numbers of the Internet Research Agency’s social media posts - compared to the vastness of the social media universe -  further diminishes the claim that it had significant impact on the election outcome. Facebook posts from the Internet Research Agency amounted to a mere 0.0004% of total Facebook content; Russian-associated tweets accounted for 0.02% of election related tweets, and Russian-linked Youtube videos had hit totals only in the hundreds, hardly the stuff of viral transmission.

I agree with her that the internal US meddling and obstruction of democracy is far more of a problem than "Russian interference".

You can read her statement here.
https://www.jill2016.com/stein_senate_statement?utm_campaign=senate_cmpn_blast&utm_medium=email&utm_source=jillstein

See also her interview with the Real News Network.

Footnotes:

1. The right to vote is the foundation of any democracy. Yet most Americans do not realize that we do not have a constitutionally protected right to vote. While there are amendments to the U.S. Constitution that prohibit discrimination based on race (15th), sex (19th) and age (26th), no affirmative right to vote exists.

Sorry, Dems and Pundits, but Hillary was only a small part of my decision in 2016

I am looking at the Guardian and seeing headlines such as:

Hopes of mild climate change dashed by new research 

Bad news for climate contrarians – 'the best data we have' just got hotter 

'We're doomed': Mayer Hillman on the climate reality no one else will dare mention

Despite headlines like these, this topic was pretty much absent from the Presidential debates. Hillary Clinton put up a statement about this issue on her website, but that was negated by this exchange between her and a Greenpeace volunteer:

Quite frankly, the only candidate who was addressing the issues that concerned me (the environment, election reform, etc) was Jill Stein.

Hillary seemed to be running on the fact that she was a woman and wasn't Donald Trump. Let's toss in that the primary election and selection of the Democratic candidate has been shown to be a farce.

The US political system is broken, but it won't get fixed by supporting the two party system. Also, it won't get fixed as long as people are in denial (RUSSSIANS!). Two of the worst presidents have gained office through the electoral college. Do we need to end up with a real idiot as president for people to see change is necessary?

Windrush is not the same as the "dreamers"

First off, the "dreamers" are unlawfully present. They are fully aware that they are not legal immigrants.

Secondly, DACA stands for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (and DAPA is Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents) aren't really amnesties. Neither do they change the status from being unlawfully present to lawfully present.  They merely "defer" any deportation.

DACA and DAPA recipients are still unlawfully present and would need to leave the country for the required period of deportation to even consider getting legal residency under current law.

On the other hand, Windrush refers to people who were citizens of colonies or commonwealth countries. The picture of the British Empire Passports gives you a clue to the problem.  These people were under the impression that they were British Citizens, which they were up until 1971.

Wouldn't you think you were British if your passport said "British Passport"? Or said you were a "British Subject"?

First part of the changes were some of the places Windrush immigrants came from gained independence.  The Second part was The The Immigration Act 1971, which ironically was also partly passed to legally clarify the rights of Commonwealth citizens within the United Kingdom in preparation for future membership of the European Communities which the UK became a member state on 1 January 1973 which gave new automatic rights to EC member state citizens.

So, it's amusing this is coming in tandem with Brexit which is now removing the right of residency for EU member state citizens.  Anyway...

A closer analogy for people in the US would be an overzealous ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) going after people who were from Puerto Rico, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands since those are territories, not states. The Philippines, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands and Palau are former territories which gained independence from the US. People from American Samoa can visit the US without a visa, but they need to go through the naturalisation process to become citizens.

Windrush vs. the "Dreamers".

OK, we are told about a group of people who came to a country for a better life, but are having problems with their immigration status.

Who do you feel sorry for: the people who didn't do it legally?

or

The people who were legal immigrants, who were actually invited to build a war torn nation, yet now find the legality of their immigration status in question?

Personally, I go with the second group, which is a discussion of the Windrush Generation. Given the Windrush crowd is pretty much black and from the Caribbean (although I do know of people from the Subcontinent who were invited under similar circumstances). Windrush refers to:

Those arriving in the UK between 1948 and 1971 from Caribbean countries have been labelled the Windrush generation.
This is a reference to the ship MV Empire Windrush, which arrived at Tilbury Docks, Essex, on 22 June 1948, bringing workers from Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and other islands, as a response to post-war labour shortages in the UK.
The ship carried 492 passengers - many of them children.

Since they were Commonwealth Citizens, they had a right of residency in the UK. The Windrush generation were legal, even if they were the subjects of racism. That is a big difference from the DAPA/DACA crowd who arrived illegally and have been looking over their shoulder from the start.

Get the picture?

Although, there is some debate about their legality, but they were colonial citizens. This is a summary of the problem:

The Home Office did not keep a record of those granted leave to remain or issue any paperwork confirming it - meaning it is difficult for Windrush arrivals to prove they are in the UK legally.
And in 2010, landing cards belonging to Windrush migrants were destroyed by the Home Office.
Because they came from British colonies that had not achieved independence, they believed they were British citizens.

Add into this mess the fact that many Windrush migrants who have had their legal status called into question have been in the UK for decades, often paying taxes and making pension contributions. Windrush migrants must prove they have been in the UK continually since 1 January 1973, when they were granted the right to stay in the country permanently. Anyone who has left the country for more than two years loses their right to remain. The Home Office did not keep records of the people to whom it granted indefinite leave to remain in the 1970s. Some stayed but did not apply for British citizenship meaning there is no official record of their legal status. People must apply for an official stamp known as No Time Limit (NTL), at a cost of £229 to have this official recognition for their right of abode in the UK.


I see a few differences here between people who are called "Dreamers" and the Windrush crowd. First off, Windrush had a legal status and were invited to live in the UK. Second off, the Windrush crowd was living as legal citizens. Thirdly, their situation is primarily one of bureaucratic malfeasance, which isn't just attributable to the Tories since it was a Labour government that destroyed the landing cards.

That is quite a difference between the "dreamers" whose entry was not legal and their status is that of being unlawfully present in the US. The dreamers have had the threat of deportation hanging over their head from the start based upon their being unlawfully present. There are legal remedies for the "dreamers", but they entail leaving the United States and going to the back of the line.

Tough shit, they should have paid an immigration lawyer less than they paid their coyote to get them into the US. Toss in we are talking human trafficking if there were indeed coyotes involved.

Bottom line, I am not a fan of amnesties. People can work to make the laws more favourable toward immigration if they have an issue with unlawfully present people getting proper immigration status. On the other hand, I have much more sympathies for people like the Windrush Generation, or the people whose residency will be put in the air by Brexit than I do with people who try to skirt immigration law sas the "dreamers" have done.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

See also:

• 'I felt like dirt': disabled Canadian woman told to leave UK after 44 years 
• Windrush generation: Who are they and why are they facing problems?
• Windrush: How do you prove you've been living in the UK?

Why DC v Heller (and McDonald v Chicago) is wrong

OK, I would shut up about this if my only complaint was related to the ability to regulate firearms. I have pointed out that these decisions do not act as a block to regulating firearms. In fact, they are highly regulation friendly. That is something I have talked about ad nauseum in the past.

Since that has been previously addressed, I will deal with the actual reasons these decisions were bad law.

First, they are historically inaccurate. I am not really going to cover this here since that would be a whole post in and of itself. The bottom line of that one is that the Amendment relates to the distrust for a standing army and bloated military establishment.  More than enough evidence for that in Anglo-American political history which is something that would have shown up if Scalia and Alito had bothered to have done their research.

Second, it removes the Second Amendment from the Constitutional Context and makes it a non-sequitur.  Not enough attention is paid to the preamble of the US Constitution here. That is important since it gives a hint what the intent of the founders happened to be when they drafted the Constitution.

The founders make it clear that the Constitution is supposed to address matters of the common defence. No where in the constitution is the concept of self-defence or personal defence addressed. It is a well known legal principle that if a text is silent on something one cannot infer that it is addressed by the law.

Furthermore, Article I, Section 8, Clause 16 gives Congress, and Congress alone, the power to:

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

It was the power to arm the militia that concerned the founders given the distrust of standing armies. Again, there is Constitutional history here in that the Federal Government had a professional army, while the states had their militias.  It was a fear that the militias would be frustrated by Congress not funding them.

Instead, the militias died from lack of interest. But I've covered that elsewhere as well.

Since the Second Amendment relates to Federal power under Article I, Section 8, Clause 16, it cannot apply to the States. That makes the McDonald decision a legal absurdity.

Third, The Heller decision acted as if it was a case of first impression, which it was not. That means the Heller and McDonald decisions were a violation of stare decisis.

While, Marbury v Madison did not relate to the Second Amendment, it did address Constitutional language and said that no clause in the Constitution was without meaning.  Of course, given Marbury's significance, perhaps we can ignore these examples of poor judicial decisions (Heller and McDonald).

Which gets to the two 19th Century Second Amendment decisions: US v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876) and Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886).

Cruikshank is short, but not really helpful because of that:

The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendments means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government.

It shows that the 19th Century lawyers were more aware of the relationship of the Second Amendment to Article I, Section 8, Clause 16. Which takes us to Presser. That is a decision I've mentioned before. It is one which is probably the best for deciphering US v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939). Presser addresses he "unorganised militia" argument, and it made clear that the Second Amendment related to only the organised militias, which is now the National Guard (see Perpich v. DOD, 496 U.S. 334 [1990]).

Miller is problematic in that its style runs counter to how most people read judicial decisions. Its holding was most likely this paragraph:

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense. Aymette v. State, 2 Humphreys (Tenn.) 154, 158.[1]

However it is unclear without the words "we hold" that this would be the holding, but it would logically be the holding. Secondly, the decision goes through the reasoning it came to this conclusion. The Miller decision then goes on to discuss Congress power to arm the militia. it then states that:

With obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such forces, the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view.[2]

That sentence directly contradicts the Heller and McDonald cases. That is because it makes clear that both clauses are necessary for interpretation of the Amendment. Even more importantly, it makes it clear that the Amendment only applies to the organised (active) militia.

Finally, since these decision would amend the constitution by neglecting an important part the text and change the meaning of the amendment. That would make the decisions ultra vires, or outside the power of the court. Unfortunately, the US Constitution does not provide for a cure for one of the branches acting outside their powers or failing to act.

So, that leaves us with bad law on the books. Fortunately, one doesn't have a problem with regulating firearms. In fact, I would suggest ignoring the two risible decisions and going toward strict regulation of firearms. After all, the two unconstitutional decisions only apply to a ban on handguns in the home.  That means firearms regulation is wide open otherwise. And both Heller and McDonald made it clear that regulations were acceptable.

Which is why there hasn't been too much complaint about these decisions from the "anti-gunners".

[1] Aymette said: " To make this view of the case still more clear, we may remark, that the phrase, "bear arms," is used in the Kentucky constitution as well as in our own, and implies, as has already been suggested, their military use. The 28th section of our bill of rights provides, "that no citizen of this State shall be compelled to bear arms, provided he will pay in equivalent, to be ascertained by law." Here we know that the phrase has a military sense, and no other; and we must infer that it is used in the same sense in the 26th section, which secures to the citizen the right to bear arms. A man in the pursuit of deer, elk and buffaloes, might carry his rifle every day, for forty years, and, yet, it would never be said of him, that he had borne arms, much less could it be said, that a private citizen bears arms, because he has a dirk or pistol concealed under his clothes, or a spear in a cane. So that, with deference, we think the argument of the court in the case referred to, even upon the question it has debated, is defective and inconclusive."

[2] See Justice William O. Douglas’s dissent in Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S 143, 150 -51 (1972). Douglas was a member of the US Supreme Court when Miller was decided and glosses that case in the dissent.

See also:

• The Second Amendment Does Not Transcend All Others

Handguns v. Assault Rifles

This is a biggie if we are going to propose arming teachers with handguns to combat mass shooters: especially if the teacher has a handgun and the shooter has a rifle.

Let's get some bullshit out of the conversation here since the term assault rifle was a creation of the gun manufacturers. There's more than enough documentation for this with things like this copy of Guns & Ammo. Toss in that the StG-44 is the accepted grandadddy of these guns. StG-44 means Sturmgewehr 44, or Assault Rifle 44.

But, I don't need to go too far to see the pro-gun side shoot themselves in the foot, literally, in this argument. Since they will try to show these weapons are "hunting" rifles, or "modern sporting weapons". Take this comment from Gun Control Myth: The AR-15 is Not Actually a Hunting Rifle:

The AR-15 platform is known for its accuracy, especially over longer distances. For some types of hunting, this characteristic is particularly useful for successful hunts. Each bullet type has varying effective ranges. The .223 is effective from 400-600 meters. An AR-15 chambered in .308 has an effective range to about 800 meters; .338 Lapua's effective range is about 1500 meters; and .50 BMG has the range of about one mile..

While the author is trying to show the round is effective at long ranges, making it a good gun for hunting. He is actually shooting down the argument for arming teachers. Now, this is where gun crazies get a little outrageous and try and argue that a bullet can kill at a range up to two miles.

But effective range to me means can you accurately hit a target, which takes the range way down. This comment from a gun forum is pretty typical for what effective range is like:

Fifty yards sounds about right. Unless they have good training, most people can't shoot a 4" barrel accurately enough to target a dump truck beyond about 50 yards.

Yards and metres are about 3 inches in similarity, with metres being about 39 inches. Giving the 50 yard accuracy as being the max for a handgun, that would mean the person armed with the assault rifle would have the advantage by more than 350 metres.

Let's toss in the training needed so that people don't get killed in the cross-fire: especially if the teacher is firing off wildly inaccurate rounds while the shooter is laying down effective fire at a high rate of accuracy.

Again, this is another issue where accurate information would be needed, but the information is solidly "anti-gun" from what little is out there. The fact that the Columbine Shooters were engaged by a Jefferson County Sheriff's deputy seems to be lost in the debate.  Toss in the times that armed people, whether civilian or professional, failed to stop, let alone ameliorate the situation is next to non-existent.

it's pretty easy to see the fallacy of someone armed with a handgun stopping someone with a rifle by just looking at the difference in effective range between those two weapons. The problem is that this argument is being pushed by people who should know better, but think "anti-gunners" don't know anything about firearms.

Some of us know quite a bit about guns, which is why we believe they should be regulated.

Anyway, this is the final argument to the people who want to call these things "hunting rifles" or "modern sporting rifles":

"Nothing like a good clean kill."

German Responds to the Nazis had gun control argument

Crisis Actors and gun violence

Not sure why this one needs to be debunked, but it does.

Crisis Actors are people who are somehow hired to "fake" shooting incidents for those who are even more removed from reality than the people who push this theory.

Like any good lie, there is a bit of truth here. The first thing to understand is that the “crisis actor” conspiracy theory has a slender tie to reality. Crisis actors do exist, though there is nothing underhanded about them: they are simply performers hired to play disaster victims in emergency drills or wounded combatants in military exercises. They provide a degree of realism for people practising for real emergencies further down the line.

This term has been hijacked where the gun plague is concerned to somehow say these incidents "didn't happen".  Despite there being obvious victims and proof of the shootings having happened. That is what makes this bullshit so hard to fight.

I used to agree with Michael Moore that the crime scene photos would stop this shit from being mentioned. I even had an online argument with Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung's daughter about this. I used to believe that facts could be used to counter bullshit, yet this crisis actor shit still keeps coming up.

Now, I have to agree with the daughter: no amount of sanity can fight this insanity.

We can provide documentation, but that is all "faked" by an all powerful "deep state".  Hell, we could exhume the graves and show these people the bodies, yet the deniers would say that was somehow "faked".

There are a lot of problems with denying mass shootings and gun violence: one of which is that it re-traumatises the victims and their families.

The other one is the biggie: if the whole point of these false flags is to bring about gun confiscation, then why the fuck hasn't it happened?

The US has had mass shootings at least since Howard Unruh went crazy and killed 13 people in Camden, NJ. Probably even before that happened. There was the 1966 University of Texas mass shooting where you can still see the bullet holes. While there was a trend to "strengthen" gun laws in the 60s-70s, that has been weakened from the 80s on.

Instead of confiscating guns, the US is awash with guns in the hands of who knows since there is no registry. Short of the authorities going after the rabid people who post on the Internet (which happens to be a USDoD creation). I would even bet that a "deep state" capable of creating realistic "mass shootings" can probably even read your minds.

Problem number two with this theory is why don't people like Alex Jones meet fatal "accidents" perpetrated by a "deep state" which has these capabilities?  Or are these people just useful idiots?

Anyway, the signs are pretty obvious that the "crisis actor" thing is bullshit as is the likelihood of any "mass confiscation" of guns. To be honest, a mass confiscation would cost far more than an Aussie style gun buyback ever would.

Toss in an all powerful, deep state capable of doing such a convincing job in producing these "mass shootings" could probably also take your guns without anyone knowing about it.  For all we know, the mass confiscations are occurring right now and the "truth" is being silenced. So beware of the shadows in your bedroom at night: they are probably agents of the New World Order.

See also:

• Crisis actors, deep state, false flag: the rise of conspiracy theory code words 
• Florida Republican's aide fired for false suggestion shooting survivors are actors
• Memorial Issue of Eagle Eye, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school news magazine

Does the United States Have a Lower Death Rate From Mass Shootings Than European Countries?

Wow, what a stupid question.

But ask a stupid question and get a stupid answer: especially from right wing media and Fox News.

Seriously?

The source of all this is John Lott.

Again, Seriously? I can't believe that the right still trots this dude out after what they did to Michael Bellesiles. I guess John Lott is OK since his bullshit is what backs up the "pro-gun" arguments, but you might want to read this before citing  Lott.

Can you say Mary Rosh?

As per usual, Mary's, Er, John Lott's statistical method leaves a lot to be desired, but the pro-gun side has never been one to let facts get in the way of their arguments. And like pretty much ever one of the pro-gun arguments, this doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

After all, the last mass shooting in Norway was in 2011.  I was SOL when I tried to find a mass shooting in Belgium, and Belgium is pretty gun crazy. I did: there was one in 2011 where three (3) people were killed in Liege. That shooting doesn't count as a mass shooting under some of the US definitions for them (some require 4 dead to be a mass shooting). So, talk about being desperate to make the US situation look somewhat acceptable.

The last one in the US? Oh, About a minute or so ago.

Really now. Please don't try to say other countries have the US problem of mass shootings: that one just does not stand up.

Seriously!  The US has a problem with mass shootings, but like any addicted person refuses to face the facts until it's one of their family members who is a victim of gun violence.

And sometimes not even then.

So, the gun nuts work on the popular ignorance of other cultures, but the US is the only country not at war that has regular mass shootings (any one where there are 3 more more victims).

So, try not to be silly and get some REAL facts into this debate. Remember the pro-gun side banned gun research because it tended to be "anti-gun".

That's the only reason somebody like John Lott is called to be an "expert" since most people who know his reputation don't take him too seriously.

See also:

• Deadliest Mass Shootings in Modern US History Fast Facts
• Mass shootings: How U.S.gun culture compareswith the rest of the world
• What we know about mass shootings
• This is how common school shootings are in America
• Mass shootings in Europe
• Six things to know about mass shootings