No, you cannot compare Ukraine to anywhere else

There is quite a bit of history in this region: especially since it is between Asia and Europe. The term "Rus" comes from the Vikings since they owe quite a lot to the Varangians. Although, there is some controversy over the origin of the name "Rus": Is it a nordic term? Or a derivation from the Greek Ρωσία, which in turn derives from Ῥῶς?

While the term Rus may be up in the air, the fact that Kyiv is in the middle of a trade route between the Varangian Vikings and the Greek world is not. 

The reason I put in the picture of this stamp is that Ukraine has been a part of many different nations states over the millenium, yet there has been an interest in nationhood. What I will call the age of Nationism brought about the rise of people like Stepan Bandera who wanted their own land. Ukraine, like Poland, may have existed for some time, but it was never truly a nation for a good part of that existence.

Again, the map for refresher on European history and nationalism:

A very short form of Ukraine's history from Wikipedia:

The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture, with the loose tribal federation Kievan Rus' forming the basis of Ukrainian identity. Following its fragmentation into several principalities in the 13th century and the devastation created by the Mongol invasion, the territorial unity collapsed and the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of powers, including the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Tsardom of Russia. The Cossack Hetmanate emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire. In the aftermath of the Russian Revolution, a Ukrainian national movement for self-determination emerged, and the internationally recognised Ukrainian People's Republic was declared on 23 June 1917. The Ukrainian SSR was a founding member of the Soviet Union in 1922. The country regained its independence in 1991, following the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Following its independence, Ukraine declared itself a neutral state.

That was to just give a short taste of the complex history of this region. And, yes, it leaves out a whole lot of the story. Since I sincerely doubt Vladmir Vladimirovich Putin would have been so foolish as to have gone on this path had he contemplated Ukraine's history.

This was the land of partisan warfare, Vladmir Vladimirovich. They will lure you in the way the Red Army lured in the Germans in Stalingrad.

Threatening the use of nuclear weapons only shows your weakness.

Again, you cannot claim to be protecting the people of Ukraine, yet willing to destroy them in your imperialist war of aggression.

I mention the Banderists since they are what you have chosen to fight. You know them.

Why are you acting like an idiot, Vladmir Vladimirovich Putin?

Fuck you, Vladmir Vladimirovich Putin, Ukrainians are not using Children as Shields,

Man, you have a lot of nerve saying shit like that when you are putting the people you are claiming to save in danger.

But, you have everything to fear from the Banderists.

Payback is a bitch. we haven't forgotten who killed Stepan Bandera or the Holodomor, fuckwad.

Meet Stepan Bandera

He looks like a nice guy to me.

This little clip from a Czech site pretty much sums up the situation in Ukraine:

 Stepan Andriyovich Bandera (1909-1959) is an icon of western Ukraine and a symbol of evil for eastern Ukraine. He fought for a dignified life for Ukrainians caught between nationalist Poles and communist Russians. He didn't take the gloves off, murdered not only soldiers but civilians, liquidated Jews, allied with Hitler against Stalin, fled to the West after WWII, but eventually the Soviets found him anyway and killed him.

I'm pretty sure he was aware that his cousins, Osip and Maria, had just welcomed another grandson to the Bandera clan when he died, but that's just an aside.

Actually, the next portion of the article pretty much sums up the situation between the First and Second World Wars. It also explains why he had the bloodthirsty rep, which I believe Putin is well aware of:

Interwar Ukrainian politics and all its political and military clones found themselves in an intractable situation in a pincer between two left-wing deviations - German fascism and Russian communism. Politicians and soldiers cruised the rough seas of world politics, trying to at least save their skins after shipwreck, but very few succeeded. Those who survived the Soviet-directed famine and cannibalism, the movement of the front to the east, the front back to the west, the rampage of the Polish army and the Soviet secret police, the confused flight through Czechoslovakia and Austria to the Americans, were displaced to occupied German Silesia beyond the Giant Mountains. The Ukrainians were then victims of history, of stronger aggressive neighbours and, above all, of monstrous leftist ideologies. Five years under the Poles and five years under the Germans.

Lviv soccer fans at a game vs. Donetsk. The banner reads "Bandera - our hero"

 

 

 

Stepan was sentenced to death for complicity in a plot against a Polish governmental minster in 1934.  On appeal, the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. The reason for the many similar terrorist actions in which he was involved, or at least knew or could have known about, was the uncompromising position of the Ukrainian nationalist youth, who uncompromisingly demanded their own state, which was unacceptable to Poland. In September 1939, when Poland was invaded by Germany and the Soviet Union, Stepan Bandera was released from prison. Who helped him out of prison and why is still unclear. He remained in Kraków, which became the capital of occupied Poland. A few days after the invasion of the Soviet Union, Stepan Bandera declared an independent Ukrainian state.

We can get into the Ukrainian Nationalist Movement since he was a leader theorist of the militant wing of the far-right Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and a leader and ideologist of Ukrainian ultranationalists known for his involvement in terrorist activities. In fact there were two branches of the OUN, OUN-B (for Bandera) and OUN-M (for Melnyk). The older, more moderate nationalist supported Andriy Atanasovych Melnyk.

The far more radical and violent crowd supported OUN-B. The Czech article had some stuff that I didn't know about:

Significantly, Stepan Bandera himself secretly went to Bavaria after the end of World War II, but the terrorist activities of the UPA in the USSR were not finally suppressed until the mid-1950s. Fighting with the Bandera fighters, who tried to pass through and sometimes break through to the West, also took place in Poland and Czechoslovakia. Although in our country their only interest was to get to the Americans and escape the Russians, police regiments were deployed against them, supplemented by volunteers who chased them through the woods rather than actually fighting them.

The local people did not obstruct the Ukrainian rebel army and as a result the UPA did not attack civilians. With a few exceptions, this was the case in what is now Poland, Transcarpathian Ukraine and eastern Slovakia.

Throughout the period of socialism in Czechoslovakia, however, their alleged rampage was exaggerated to unbelievable proportions, the heroism of a few dead policemen was held up on a pedestal, and at the same time the banderos were associated in the popular mind with the German werwolfs, i.e. trained saboteurs who briefly operated after the Nazi surrender. Their reputation in the Czech Republic has also suffered because the word banderovci sounds similar to gang (of criminals, enemies of the regime, etc.)

Дякую, Алекс Тора!

I'm not sure how accurate the suppression of Ukrainian nationalism in the late 1950s happens to be, especially since Stepan Bandera was killed in late 1959. I was under the impression that Ukrainian nationalist "terrorism" in the Soviet Union lasted much longer than that. But I've been told it was enough of a scourge that Vladimire Putin knows about Stepan Bandera and his followers.
 

In fact, it's a fun exercise to read about Stepan Bandera on the internet since he's either a monster, or a saint, depending on your point of view. The neutral point of view is that he was a Ukrainian nationalist during a time of extreme nationalist movements (e.g., Nazism). He was also a shrewd politician he could have pounded Putin's ass in a second.

But the real point is that Stepan Bandera is still considered a hero in Western Ukraine and amongst the ethnic Ukrainians for his fighting for an independent state. I've been told that his home is a place of pilgrimage for soldiers heading to the Donbass. Putin should not have been such a dumbass as to assert that Ukraine and Russia are the same, but he will learn his lesson soon enough if he continues down the road he is heading.

Making more "Zinky boys" is not a path to strength, which is a lesson he should have learned in Afghanistan, Dagestan, and Chechnya. Maybe Russia needs yet another ass pounding to realise war is not a good idea. And I believe that the Ukrainians could still go back to Banderist tactics, which would hit the Russian homeland.

Dumb move, Vlad.

See also (or just do a search to read various opinions about him):

• Ukraine's turbulent past between hagiography and demonization
• Meet the Ukrainian Resistance Army 
• A few words for Christopher Miller about “Banderites” and Ukrainian history 
  
• Stepan Bandera | Military Wiki | Fandom
• Who Was Stepan Bandera? 
• Stepan Bandera | Religion Wiki | Fandom
  

So, the "unthinkable" has happened.

 I'm not really surprised. Or that wrong.

Remember that Russia has been aiding the Donbas separatists (and other ethnic Russians) since the Crimea voted to "rejoin" Russia. The resistance within Ukraine's borders heated up after Maidan.

Toss in that if Russia really wanted to come in heavy, they could.

But does that make any sense given he's there to "protect the ethnic Russians". 

Nothing like a shitload of collateral damage of the people you are claiming to save to underline that Putin is a total asshole. If the dude had a brain, he would be using Ukraine as a backdoor to the EU and NATO.

I was under the impression that the KGB/FSB were somewhat competent. On the other hand, Vlad the Imputent, managed to make it up the hierarchy. Maybe it was the Peter Principle.

Anyway, this just began, there's plenty more time for Vlad to fuck it up.

Wotinthefuck is Vladmir Putin thinking (or not)????

You can’t really compare this situation to Hitler’s walking into countries since the locals aren’t going to give the Russians a warm welcome: unless you mean gunfire when you say warm welcome.

The problem with people in the West, particularly the US, is that they are ignorant of the history and what is going on. Me: I’m not sure where to begin, but it seems that Euromaidan might be a good place (and raises my question: was Fiona Hill involved in this???).

Anyone who knows me would know that I would be sympathetic to Euromaidan if it was indeed a popular rising. That is especially true since one of the goals of this uprising would be that Ukraine joined the European Union, even if I didn’t manage to get EU citizenship out of this deal. But, one of the upshots was that the Ukrainian majority became more militant and the Russian minority became scared. And most of the Russians are in the East, or Donbass region.

Did I say something about people killing each other over which language they speak, Дякую/dziękuję/Спасибо?

Anyway, one of the upshots was that the Russians in the Eastern part wanted to protect themselves, and thought maybe rejoining Russia was a brilliant idea. The people in the West weren’t so keen: especially since Crimea had been reannexed by Russia. That means there has been a low level armed struggle in Eastern Ukraine. A recap from a post I made earlier:

But we need to get a little history of the situation.

The US want to control Ukraine in order to establish US managed pipeline routes relating to the geopolitical competition over oil and natural gas. The US also wants to advance the US controlled NATO alliance to surround all of Russia’s European borders. The Obama administration and the State Department (which Hillary Clinton had built up from 2009 to 2013) assisted in the undemocratic coup in Ukraine which was led by neo-Nazi white supremacists in 2014. This Nationalist group violently took over Ukraine. The Nationalists attempted to make it illegal in Ukraine to speak Russian, a minority who are still a major force in running the Ukraine government.

In Crimea, where the vast majority of residents are Russian, the Crimeans, fearing the Nationalist regime that had just taken over Kiev, quickly voted to rejoin Russia and by agreement with no military action at all, Crimea legally rejoined Russia. There was no supposed ‘invasion’ of Crimea. It did not happen.

Likewise, the people in the Donbass region of Eastern Ukraine were also concerned with the Nationalist ethnic cleansing. An election was held, but because a similar annexation of Donbas into Russia would spoil western plans to dominate pipeline routes and control Russia’s border, the fascist government in Kiev immediately moved with its military, to by force squash the vote and stop Donbas from leaving. This resulted in a 2014-2015 civil war in Donbas, in which Russia lent military support to Donbas (but no formal troops) and the US lent mirroring military support to Kiev.

Putin, if anything, is there preventing a possible genocide. Additionally, the Aid being given to the Ukrainian forces is questionable given that it could result in a genocide.

Ukrainian soldiers are making pilgrimages to Stepan Bandera’s house before heading east.

Which would have any sane person of the Russian type thinking hard about the sanity of invading Ukraine. There are a lot better ways to make sure that ethnic Russians are safe than military help. In fact, given what I know about Banderists, that is probably the dumbest thing one could do.

It’s like starting an uprising in a Jewish Ghetto during WWII. We know how those turned out.

The problem is that Putin has put his prestige points into this gambit and he’s about to see any captial go to shit posthaste should war break out.

Seriously, Dude! Maybe you know my qualifications to be giving you advice. I know you are familiar with my family. Maybe the Banderas aren’t going to be leaders, but assassinating Stepan Bandera created a martyr. No matter how much your crowd try and discredit him: he has become a rallying point for the Ukrainians. And these people are the right wing, ultranationalists.

Sure you would have preferred Ukraine went with the Customs Union, but I would like to think you are clever and that Ukraine as part of the EU would benefit Russia as well. Maybe Ukraine in NATO is a stretch, but you can’t sabre rattle and not expect them to want some form of protection.

The Ukrainians have not forgotten the Holomodor and are going to fight you with all they can.

Remember that before you go any further down this path.

 See also:
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/