Showing posts with label gun carry laws. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gun carry laws. Show all posts

Thursday, March 21, 2019

Grasping at Straws (or the Pro-gun side really has a problem)

I was trying to find the study that demonstrated using a gun for self-defence is usually counterproductive. Instead of finding that data, I was bombarded with this "Secret CDC Study" that "confirms" The 2-3 Million annual DGU number. It doesn't which is why I am publishing it in full.
Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.

Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or injury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry—may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners, this could cancel or outweigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that relate to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration.
Odd that most of the people who want to use this fail to quote the title: Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

The reason I call this post what I do is that any person who says this somehow "confirms" the 2-3 million annual DGUs is either dishonest as fuck or illiterate.

This doesn't confirm anything other than gun violence research is not being properly carried out. The fact that the progun side is using this to back up their claims shows that they are really desperate to prove their claim.

Which this doesn't do.

Sorry, but the reason for the research ban was that the facts were against the "pro-gun" side. And it doesn't seem that is going to change looking at how they are using something like this to back up their claims.

The progunners would be better off letting the research happen and let if fall where it may

See also:

Sunday, September 3, 2017

Gun Control Irony

It would be really ironic if instead of all the mass shootings the US has suffered (my condolences to the victims and their families), that the incident that caused people to realise the US needs gun control is an out of control suburban mother fighting over a notebook in a suburban Wal-Mart.
No, pulling a gun in this situation is not self-defence by any stretch of the imagination.  No one was fearing death or serious bodily injury which would justify even the threat of deadly force.

The woman pulling the gun is committing Felony Assault under Michigan law, Section 750.82.
The offense of Assault with a Deadly Weapon (ADW), is also known as Felonious Assault in Michigan. ADW is felony which is punishable by up to 4 years in prison. ADW is a crime which involves an assault with a deadly weapon (such as a gun or knife) or any other instrumentality which is fashioned or used as a weapon (car, club, bottle) which is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death. A criminal charge or conviction does not require actual physical contact or an injury. The offense is considered complete upon placing another in fear of an assault by a person who possesses a deadly weapon 
Michigan law requires that the defendant "must have honestly and reasonably believed that he or she was in danger of being killed, seriously injured or sexually assaulted" in order to use deadly force.  Additionally, the defendant "may only use as much force as he or she thinks is necessary at the time to protect himself or herself."

While a person may believe he or she had acted in self-defense, the police, prosecutor, judge and jury may disagree.


No shots need to be fired for her to be found guilty.

I'm not sure how the "pro-gun" crowd can defend this action.  I know responsible gun owners don't, but it's time they stepped up to the plate and admitted this shit happens too often with the relaxing of concealed carry law for it to be condoned.

It's time to give Presser v Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 6 S.Ct. 580, 29 L.Ed. 615 (1886) yet another plug.

One of the many failings of the Heller-McDonald bullshit is that those cases were not cases of first impression, but that post is coming in the future.

See also:

Thursday, March 3, 2016

Black Panthers, Gunloons, and the Second Amendment

I found this clip while looking for videos relating to the Black Panthers open carrying and the origin of the Mulford Act.  This was in the day when "conservatives" believed in law and order as opposed to encouraging the reality challenged right in their delusions.  Note comment about the Second Amendment toward the end of this.




KRON-TV News footage from the late 1960s in which an official argues there should be greater gun controls, referencing the Black Panthers showing up at an airport armed with guns to meet Betty Shabazz (Malcolm X's widow). The official says he does not believe that in the "urban environment we have in California" that we should allow people to carry guns "in an excited and hostile atmosphere," and laments that there was no way to prosecute the Panthers under the current law. "We have to protect society from nuts with guns." Ends with a brief overhead glimpse of Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale walking down stairs. This footage was probably used in 'Eyes on the Prize II' and may or may not be a compilation of clips rather than one report. [Originally shot on 16mm film, a BetaSP videotape master was made by KRON-TV and was used to produce this low-res online screener.] Remastered, edited and catalogued for the web by Shira Peltzman.

Friday, March 23, 2012

Pictures are better than words, the moving pictures are better yet

As the speaker notes here, the law in Florida should more properly be called Stand Someone Else's Ground. As another speaker notes, it is an insane law. Remove it. NOW.

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I'm not sure I agree with the view int he following video that the City manager should have fired the police chief. But clearly the police chief did not do a good job, clearly other members of that police department appear not to have done a good job for that community either. But it makes sense that given the problems with the police performance, waiting before taking some action wasn't a good idea. I wonder if in the absence of the police chief, if the next person to act in that role in the interim is going to be any more professional and effective? Or is it going to be replacing one failure with someone equally bad? It's time for an arrest, it is overdue.
The law is bad, it has to go. It has to go in Florida, it has to go everywhere else that it is Stand Someone Else's Ground, and at the same time, gun carry law failure should be given a good look as well.