Without knowing all the details of the case, it is interesting how the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Office commented:
The death of Mrs. Savita Halappanavar and her unborn child in University Hospital Galway on the 28 October last was a devastating personal tragedy for her husband and family. It has stunned our country. We share the anguish and sorrow expressed by so many at the tragic loss of a mother and her baby in these circumstances and we express our sympathy to the family of Mrs. Halappanavar and all those affected by these events.
In light of the widespread discussion following the tragic death of Mrs Halappanavar and her unborn baby, we wish to reaffirm some aspects of Catholic moral teaching. These were set out in our recently published Day for Life message on 7 October last, available on www.chooselife2012.ie.
- The Catholic Church has never taught that the life of a child in the womb should be preferred to that of a mother. By virtue of their common humanity, a mother and her unborn baby are both sacred with an equal right to life.
- Where a seriously ill pregnant woman needs medical treatment which may put the life of her baby at risk, such treatments are ethically permissible provided every effort has been made to save the life of both the mother and her baby.
Emphasis added by me.
I wonder if America's Catholic Bishops promote the same guidence ... or if this is a "country by country" decision ? As I recall, abortion is legal in Italy ... and the Diocese of Rome has been ranked as having the highest abortion rate in that country.
As I recall, Paul Ryan does not approve of an exception addressing the life of the Mother ... I guess in his opinion it was better for Savita Halappanavar to spend three days in pain and agony and eventually die from blood poisoning and better to empower the Irish hospital and the doctors who refused to terminate her pregnancy when she was obviously having medical complications.
We have had similar cases here in the United States.
That empty lip service to saving the life of the mother is crap, something the RC does NOT follow in practice.
Time for Ireland to STOP being a Roman Catholic country, and start being a more compassionate, real-world secular one.
I hope there is a separate and very lonely hell for Paul Ryan, where he receives no applause or support, only condemnation from a distance for eternity.
Those who oppose abortion are NOT moral people, they are superstitious people who are following a belief unsupported by fact or science, which they happily impose upon others while patting themselves on the back for how superior they think they are -- except they are not, not at all.
Help me out if my understanding is wrong, but the woman wanted to have the child but experienced health complications. Since she was a dentist, she would have more than a passing knowledge of medical science, yet could not convince the physicians to act per her wishes.
Praveen Halappanavar, her husband reportedly said : "They said unfortunately she can't because it's a Catholic country. Savita said to her she is not Catholic, she is Hindu, and why impose the law on her. But she said 'I'm sorry, unfortunately it's a Catholic country' and it's the law that they can't abort when the fetus is live." The baby's heartbeat stopped on the Wednesday. Savita died on Saturday.
Based on the Catholic Bishops statement, it should have been permissible … but the physicians may have exerted their own personal views. The Irish Supreme Court has previously ruled that the mother and child have an equal right to life. However, no government has enacted legislation to give certainty to doctors as to when terminations can be carried out and under what circumstances.
Clearly, Ireland has problems.
Fast forward to the day that the US Supreme Court changes Roe-v-Wade giving the powers to the states to make their own laws. There will be Anti-Abortion states with the Paul Ryan-types outlawing any action … including empowering pharmacists to deny selling contraceptive drugs and devices. There will be some employee who happens to be assigned to work in one of those Anti-Abortion states and who will experience the same situation as Savita Halappanavar … and she will be denied assistance with the explanation, "Unfortunately you can't because you are in an Anti-Abortion State regardless if you are Catholic, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim or agnostic, it’s OUR law.”
Based on what we have seen happen at various state legislatures, including Minnesota, this is not necessarily a party-line vote. While a lot of politicians emphasize jobs and job creators during campaigns, the legislative sessions seem to pivot based on abortion.
Countries like Ireland will refuse to let you LEAVE, if they think you will get a legal abortion elsewhere, something that I could easily see as within the intrusive big brother government style of the right. Or alternatively, if women do succeed in escaping their country or state to get an abortion, there is the risk of being treated as a criminal if they return home.
This is not only the case for the woman who died; it has been ongoing for years.
And like the conscience laws passed here that allow a doctor to lie to women if they think being given full, complete and accurate information about a pregnancy and health risks, in Ireland they also prevent and permit doctors from informing women as well:
When I argued a case challenging Ireland’s ban on abortion before the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), I told the story of my client Ms C, who had been battling cancer and had had no option but to travel to England to obtain an abortion when she became pregnant.
Ms C’s doctors had refused to provide even basic information about the risk that continuation of pregnancy posed to her life. The human rights court found this to be a clear violation of her rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. It demanded that Ireland reform its abortion laws. The case was a major victory for women’s health and rights.
Some medical schools in this country no longer will teach the common D&C procedure to medical students training to become doctors, because while it is used for a wide variety of reasons, including treating fibroid tumors, polyps, and to end occasional dangerously excessive menstrual bleeding, dilation and curettage can also be used to perform abortions. So the conservative solution is to require ignorance, and if a few women die or become ill --- hey, we're women, to the right we're expendable. If we die, we die. If we're sick because of a lack of care, oh well, too bad for us, blame it on Eve and that darned apple / fig / pomegranite.
The Christian right wing Taliban is alive and well, and running the anti-abortion movement.
Great additional information ... yet, don't you wonder if the comment -to the right we're expendable. If we die, we die. If we're sick because of a lack of care, oh well, too bad for us -- fails to include the obvious -- "if you die, well, you weren't going to vote for us anyway." That may be cynical ... but also for too many, a true reflection of their beliefs.
Without knowing all the details of the case, it is interesting how the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Office commented:
ReplyDeleteThe death of Mrs. Savita Halappanavar and her unborn child in University Hospital Galway on the 28 October last was a devastating personal tragedy for her husband and family. It has stunned our country. We share the anguish and sorrow expressed by so many at the tragic loss of a mother and her baby in these circumstances and we express our sympathy to the family of Mrs. Halappanavar and all those affected by these events.
In light of the widespread discussion following the tragic death of Mrs Halappanavar and her unborn baby, we wish to reaffirm some aspects of Catholic moral teaching. These were set out in our recently published Day for Life message on 7 October last, available on www.chooselife2012.ie.
- The Catholic Church has never taught that the life of a child in the womb should be preferred to that of a mother. By virtue of their common humanity, a mother and her unborn baby are both sacred with an equal right to life.
- Where a seriously ill pregnant woman needs medical treatment which may put the life of her baby at risk, such treatments are ethically permissible provided every effort has been made to save the life of both the mother and her baby.
Emphasis added by me.
I wonder if America's Catholic Bishops promote the same guidence ... or if this is a "country by country" decision ? As I recall, abortion is legal in Italy ... and the Diocese of Rome has been ranked as having the highest abortion rate in that country.
As I recall, Paul Ryan does not approve of an exception addressing the life of the Mother ... I guess in his opinion it was better for Savita Halappanavar to spend three days in pain and agony and eventually die from blood poisoning and better to empower the Irish hospital and the doctors who refused to terminate her pregnancy when she was obviously having medical complications.
We have had similar cases here in the United States.
DeleteThat empty lip service to saving the life of the mother is crap, something the RC does NOT follow in practice.
Time for Ireland to STOP being a Roman Catholic country, and start being a more compassionate, real-world secular one.
I hope there is a separate and very lonely hell for Paul Ryan, where he receives no applause or support, only condemnation from a distance for eternity.
Those who oppose abortion are NOT moral people, they are superstitious people who are following a belief unsupported by fact or science, which they happily impose upon others while patting themselves on the back for how superior they think they are -- except they are not, not at all.
Is there a warning here ?
ReplyDeleteHelp me out if my understanding is wrong, but the woman wanted to have the child but experienced health complications. Since she was a dentist, she would have more than a passing knowledge of medical science, yet could not convince the physicians to act per her wishes.
Praveen Halappanavar, her husband reportedly said :
"They said unfortunately she can't because it's a Catholic country. Savita said to her she is not Catholic, she is Hindu, and why impose the law on her.
But she said 'I'm sorry, unfortunately it's a Catholic country' and it's the law that they can't abort when the fetus is live."
The baby's heartbeat stopped on the Wednesday. Savita died on Saturday.
Based on the Catholic Bishops statement, it should have been permissible … but the physicians may have exerted their own personal views.
The Irish Supreme Court has previously ruled that the mother and child have an equal right to life. However, no government has enacted legislation to give certainty to doctors as to when terminations can be carried out and under what circumstances.
Clearly, Ireland has problems.
Fast forward to the day that the US Supreme Court changes Roe-v-Wade giving the powers to the states to make their own laws.
There will be Anti-Abortion states with the Paul Ryan-types outlawing any action … including empowering pharmacists to deny selling contraceptive drugs and devices.
There will be some employee who happens to be assigned to work in one of those Anti-Abortion states and who will experience the same situation as Savita Halappanavar … and she will be denied assistance with the explanation, "Unfortunately you can't because you are in an Anti-Abortion State regardless if you are Catholic, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim or agnostic, it’s OUR law.”
Based on what we have seen happen at various state legislatures, including Minnesota, this is not necessarily a party-line vote.
While a lot of politicians emphasize jobs and job creators during campaigns, the legislative sessions seem to pivot based on abortion.
It is more draconian than that Mac.
DeleteCountries like Ireland will refuse to let you LEAVE, if they think you will get a legal abortion elsewhere, something that I could easily see as within the intrusive big brother government style of the right. Or alternatively, if women do succeed in escaping their country or state to get an abortion, there is the risk of being treated as a criminal if they return home.
This is not only the case for the woman who died; it has been ongoing for years.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/1122/1224326950871.html
And like the conscience laws passed here that allow a doctor to lie to women if they think being given full, complete and accurate information about a pregnancy and health risks, in Ireland they also prevent and permit doctors from informing women as well:
When I argued a case challenging Ireland’s ban on abortion before the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), I told the story of my client Ms C, who had been battling cancer and had had no option but to travel to England to obtain an abortion when she became pregnant.
Ms C’s doctors had refused to provide even basic information about the risk that continuation of pregnancy posed to her life. The human rights court found this to be a clear violation of her rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. It demanded that Ireland reform its abortion laws. The case was a major victory for women’s health and rights.
Some medical schools in this country no longer will teach the common D&C procedure to medical students training to become doctors, because while it is used for a wide variety of reasons, including treating fibroid tumors, polyps, and to end occasional dangerously excessive menstrual bleeding, dilation and curettage can also be used to perform abortions. So the conservative solution is to require ignorance, and if a few women die or become ill --- hey, we're women, to the right we're expendable. If we die, we die. If we're sick because of a lack of care, oh well, too bad for us, blame it on Eve and that darned apple / fig / pomegranite.
The Christian right wing Taliban is alive and well, and running the anti-abortion movement.
Great additional information ... yet, don't you wonder if the comment -to the right we're expendable. If we die, we die. If we're sick because of a lack of care, oh well, too bad for us -- fails to include the obvious -- "if you die, well, you weren't going to vote for us anyway." That may be cynical ... but also for too many, a true reflection of their beliefs.
ReplyDelete